Northern Ireland and Brexit

B9 the NI problem is actually less about religion and more about culture and history.

Religion was interlinked with civil rights B9exchange ,right up until recent times,the 70's catholics didn't have the same rights as their protestant neighbours.As I stated before this is how NI was engineered by Westminster by the settlements of Scots protestants and orangemen .Most right minded folk can see now that it was wrong but it has gone on so long that the hatred and bitterness will never completely disappear.
The DUP/conservative alliance has given the fanatics a voice again and if the border is re established there will without doubt be trouble.

... a relative who lives on the border says it currently has a lot to do with drugs smuggling.

mcem Tue 09-Oct-18 22:25:41
B9 the NI problem is actually less about religion and more about culture and history

So right mcem
A Northern Irishman tells the story about a man stopped at a crossing point in Belfast during the troubles.
“Catholic or Protestant?” was the question
“I’m an Atheist” he replied
“Ah, but are ye a Protestant Atheist or a Catholic Atheist?”

MawBroon drugs and crime have always been closely linked to the conflict, some of the young men 'kneecapped' were involved in dealing.And the proceeds of crime funded some of the activities.

B9 the NI problem is actually less about religion and more about culture and history

But you can't divorce religion from Irish culture and history.

Not denying in any way what you say about drugs Trisher so not sure why this was addressed to me

The DUP has stepped up the pressure on Theresa May over its demands for Brexit, by briefing that it could vote against this month’s budget if the prime minister breaches the party’s red lines on the issue at next week’s EU summit.

The threat – which could in theory topple May, or even bring down the government – has not been made publicly, but was briefed to the BBC and Sky News by sources in the Northern Irish party.

According to the reports, if the DUP feels May has given away too much at next week’s crunch meeting in Brussels, the party could withdraw the support of its 10 MPs for the vote on the budget, thus risking it being defeated.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/oct/10/dup-may-vote-against-budget-if-theresa-may-gives-away-too-much-in-brussels

I've always been against Independence for Scotland- but now, I just could not blame any of them for voting for it.

Maizie without in any way criticising the post by B9 l genuinely believe that NI's problems are not rooted in the version of genuine Christianity mooted by her.
Sadly, I think it's naive to believe that daily prayers of conciliation and forgiveness, recited in every school etc might disentangle the complicated strands of Irish history.
How the NI question could have been virtually ignored until very recently is beyond understanding.
I repeat what I 've said on another thread, that this insoluble problem was one of the main reasons I voted to remain.

Why would you be against Scottish Indeppendence,its unlikely a free Scotland would infringe on your lifeJura2 Were you also against other countries gaining their freedom from Westminster rule or is it just us ? I can tell you that none of the countries who have gained their independence have ever wanted to return to being (over) ruled by a majority of English Mp's who know little of their country or the people in it.We only want what is a normal right to rule ourselves .

l genuinely believe that NI's problems are not rooted in the version of genuine Christianity mooted by her.

It could almost be said that you are confusing Christianity with religion here, mcem

And how does one distinguish 'genuine' Christianity from other sorts? It seems like the 'What is real Socialism?' question all over again

paddyann- I am not actually, and never have been, against Independence for Scotland- as such. But pro Union- as I feel we are stronger together. Just like the EU in fact.

Currently, if there is a hard Brexit or No Deal- than I think we have gone beyond the Union - and that Scotland would have every right to want independence. Did not express myself very well.

The break up of Great Britain would infringe on all of us- so would a hard Brexit or no Deal ...even those of us who no longer live in the UK.

I've always been against Independence for Scotland- but now, I just could not blame any of them for voting for it

How can you now say

I am not actually and never have been against independence for Scotland as such
Do these statements not contradict each other?

No, not at all - circumstances have changed totally. So I have changed by opinion.

Eee Jura !

The DUP certainly have the power to sink TM, will they really go that far?. It could easily force a general election and the outcome could well be JC as PM but will he have a outright majority.
A partnership with the SNP would be an interesting alliance on Brexit, Nicola Sturgeon would have an entirely different set of red lines. The DUP will likely vote down any Brexit Bill but they have a lot to loose if a vote of no confidence is triggered.

Well, with many Conservative MPs not attending Prime Ministers Question time in Parliament yesterday and Theresa May did look very isolated. It would seem that the Brexit row within the Tory party is now very likely to see the end of her premiership, but what follows could be any one of several scenarios.

Grandad, how would a change solve the NI problem and who are your likely candidates, is a heavyweight really likely to take the poison chalice.

Diana54, I do not believe that any change of PM or even a General Election would solve the Brexit mire that the UK is politically sinking into.

Even if an agreement is reached in the leave negotiations based on the Chequers deal, in all probability it will be thrown out by the British Parliament.

What must those EU negotiators be thinking as they try to work towards an agreement in Brussels?

That was a long read in one sitting! But I note no suggestions re solving the unsolvable Border problem. Johnson talks about it as if it one bridge. Not 300 miles with a total of about 200 roads of various types crossing it. And a train line.
Currently ferry ports (and airports) require you to have photo ID at borders which is inspected. Unless you are in a vehicle. The ro-ro ports are designed to keep things flowing so if you get to port in a car with 4 passengers, as long as you have a ticket with 4 passengers, they just wave you into the port. And no stopping when you get off the other end. Lorry traffic is a huge issue as a lot of food and other perishables goes through the 3 ports. If there we are not in the single market and the customs union then there would need to be checks in both directions. Traffic would rapidly back up e.g. to the centre of Dublin. Ferries would no longer be able to run on schedule. And so it goes on... I agree there is no solution given May's Red Lines about leaving the above and not being willing to have a single arbiter in regulatory disputes.

I'm sure it going to be up to parliament to decide and a lot of MPs are going to ignore the whip, if it comes to that a second vote is highly likely because nobody will want shoulder the blame - or responsibility depending on which way you look at it

Diana54, I most definitely hope you are right regarding a second vote.

Do not worry, Grandad- MawB will soon be here with a great and easy solution (hmmm perhaps).