Wedding cake for gay couple

As we appear to have on the forum two threads on the same topic, I will paste the same comments I made on the other thread with some added text.

I also support gay marriage, but I also support the right of the bakers to refuse this request from the customer.

However, the ruling by the Supreme Court in that it was the message on the cake that the bakers were legally entitled to refuse rather than an outright offence under the equalities act does bring forward enormous questions regarding the broader implementation of the above legislation.

The above questions may well have be tested through the courts, and that could have much broader ramifications than just this case in that those judgements may well affect us all.

I believe that a statement in the House of Commons by the Home Secretary has been requested by a number of MPs to clarify the position.

An anti-gay message could contravene equality laws.

There was a chap from a LGBT organisation on Radio 4 (only caught a bit of the discussion) who came out in favour of the baker as it means a gay baker could say no to icing on an anti-gay message.

Lemongrove As I said to MAW anything that could be construed as racially motivated would be justifiably refused. Glad you are not being personal

Yes Maddy I know x

Thank you Annie, and you know I wish the same for you. X

maddy, thank you. I wish your son, his partner and thir son a happy life x

Yes Lrmon, you're right, it is a mother's lot to worry, and you're also right in that he has a solid, loving, and supportive family, and and a very successful career. All things to thank the Lord for, in my opinion.

So could a shopkeeper refuse to sell Easter cards or Diwali cards. They could couldn’t they -just not stock them.

Could a dressmaker say ‘I don’t make Halloween costumes.” I think they could.

I think probably the judgement was correct. Not a baker that I would be using though. And not someone that would make me want to have anything to do with the Christian faith.

PECS ... no it didn’t, but we are not talking racists here.
The judge found that a baker does not have to ice a message on a product that he himself does not agree with.
What if a Palestinian here asked a baker to ice ‘Down with Israel!’ On a cake?
That is what the Supreme Court judge applied to this case.
It’s the message, not the cake.

Maddy it’s a Mothers lot to worry isn’t it?
However your son sounds as if has a very solid family relationship and a good career, for which you must be very thankful.

Lemongrove I expect that Black & Irish immigrants in the 40s and 50s found a landlord to rent a room from when refused by racists. Did not make the racist landlords justified!

MAW the examples you give would possibly contravene the law in that they could be construed as inflammatory! Anti-racist language is not acceptable in the eyes of the law and therefore any baker would be right to refuse the job. .

The message 'Support Gay marriage' offended these particular fundamentalist "Christians" but the phrase was not in anyway illegal. I know other people (my brother & SiL) who are evangelical Christians who would support the phrase.. so to me it is a poor and disappointing judgement. The bakers based their refusal on personal preference not on any universal religious doctrine.

There already is a other thread on this topic. I wonder if GNHQ can amalgimate them?

You're absolutely right Lemon, his cake was made and iced by his partner's mother, and very nice it was too. If course, the event was purely civil, it didn't take place in a religious establishment of any kind. In fact, my son wanted one of the pieces of music to be Ave Maria, but it wasn't allowed, no religious music of any kind. Which was sad, but he got over it! His son now attends a religious school, it's the nearest school to them. I worried about discrimination and/or attacks as he lived in London, and there are attacks on gay people every year in London, some people are murdered. But my husband says that in his line of work, he's a barrister in a top set of chambers, he will not meet discrimination amongst the people he works with, and he hasn't, though he doesn't advertise that he is gay to solicitors or clients when he is working. He doesn't look or appear gay in any way ie he is not remotely camp, so he doesn't attract attention, nor does his partner. But like many things in life, unless you experience the reality of the worry of discrimination or even attacks, then it is difficult to comprehend. Thankfully gay discrimination is far less common these days, but it still exists.

I doubt your son insisted that the baker iced that particular slogan on a cake though Maddy.
The customer soon found another baker in any case.

I think Annie, if it was me, if I was the baker, I would feel I was discriminating against the Gay person. I would have just made the cake. But I have to set my position against the fact that one of my two sons is gay. He had a civil ceremony a few years ago, and we have completely accepted that he is gay, has a lovely partner, and a lovely adopted child. I love my son and my grandchild and cannot bear the thought of him being discriminated against in any way.

The judge made the right decision.It was purely the message, and not the sexuality of the customer.

I agree with Maw.
No-one should be forced to express support for a position or for values with which they disagree.

In The Guardian it says that they were evangelical Christians Annie, but I don't know more than that.

I agree with the decision.

Maddy are they evangelical or just Christians who do not believe in same sex marriage ? Is this discrimination ?

If a member of the Countryside Alliance went to a baker and asked for 'Support Foxhunting' to be iced on a cake and the baker refused. Would that baker be sued or applauded?

Surely people are entitled to their opinions and beliefs without being forced to support something they disagree with?

Look at my putative examples.
I rest my case.

I understand your reasoning Maw but none the less, as a person with religious belief, I believe that discrimination is not part of the Christian religion. Also a mother of a Gay son, I support Gay Rights.

It was the principle of the message they were expected to pipe on the cake, as I understand it, not the sexuality of the customers.
Imagine if a Jewish bakery were oblige to pipe an anti-Semitic message?
Or a Muslim baker, something offensive to Islam?
Or you or I obliged to pipe some racist or anti- immigrant message?
I think the verdict was the right one but no doubt there will be all sorts of protests for the wrongreasons.