‘Grenfell’ bonfire

Baggs I would eyeroll but it doesn’t do justice to the crassness of your comments on this in suggesting they might have been making a political comment. They were making racist comments wth a racist act and quite frankly if you haven’t heard/read the words that were spoken during the burning then you are in absolutely no position to even begin to comment on their motives.
E no postinnto even begin to

Where are you coming from Baggs? Are you saying they were trying to bring about some sort of social awareness ?!!

I'm coming from an emotionally detached place about a bunch of people being crass about a disaster, bridgeit. No, I'm not saying they were trying to bring about some sort of social awareness, only that I wish they had been.

Last line please delete

I wasn't commenting on actual motives, me. I don't know what the actual motives were. I was commenting on what I think would have been acceptable, possibly even useful, motives.

A bunch of people being racist or is crass the new apologetic word for being racist?

Nobody is diminishing the depths this ugly crass action plumbed, nor that the perpetrators should be ashamed of their action for the rest of their lives (if only).

Whether what was done was legally a crime, to be prosecuted and those involved given a criminal record, is a quite separate question.

maryeliza, I asked a question, I haven’t seen or heard the video which is why I asked the question ‘ was it a threat or abusive’.

Why were you doing that Baggs when the words they used made it quite clear what their motives were? Emotional detachment can sometimes fly in the face of the blindingly obvious - free speech can be and often is just racist

I haven't heard the words, me. I am theorising about something people have found shocking. I'm allowed to do that just as you are allowed to be outraged and incensed by words.

I think you missed the word IF in my comment made at 16:16:52. It's probably the most important word in the post.

Since you're so keen on words and their meanings....

I can understand anyone ab not wanting to play the video but you can read up what was actually said but that then needs putting in the context of the legislation and investigating which is what the police are doing. But regardless of the final decision on that, saying ‘jump’ and ‘ninja’ tells you all you need to know about theses ‘people’ let alone making and burning an effigy of GT. In what universe would this ever be all right?

The subjunctive is a difficult mood.

I think looking for alternative theoretical explanations for their behaviour is extremely shoddy and takes so called emotional detachment to a new low. It smacks of minimising and being an apologist and quite frankly is totally unnecessary given what is already definitely known. Why is it so difficult for you Baggs just to accept that this group of people behaved in an appallingly racist way which is morally unacceptable whatever the law might finally say? Sometimes things are really that simple. Ducks you know

me, it's possible (I'm doing it) to believe that the people who made the video are racist twats at the same time as thinking that, properly used (i.e. without racist overtones), such an effigy-burning in a back garden could have been an impressive political comment.

And yes, racist twattiness is morally unacceptable, but not necessarily criminal.

Which was my original point.

Just As Maryeliza says, plus take away any racial connotations from it, these idiots were amusing themselves making a mock up of GT plus comments & finding it ohh so amusing , there are No excuses .
Dying in a burning inferno is Not a subject any right minded person would wish to be turned into humour ,WELL I would like to think so , but apparently not.!

maryeliza things which are very offensive are not always against the law.

Ok Maryeliza , so let’s agree it was not criminal, if you are not a lawyer who is just trying to point out how the law works, what are your actual thoughts ,what are you trying to say or defend? I would genuinely like to understand

SORRY a I mean BAGGs

There might well be a prosecution for a hatred crime. If nothing comes of this then the remaining tenants and relatives of those who died in the fire will be up in arms.

I also hope they get the thug in Liverpool who put a firework in a homeless mans clothing. This chap is an Army veteran who'd served in the frontline and only for his Army training was he able to grab the firework and dispose of it before he was badly burned. How evil.How wicked !

Baggs I agree with you.

I'm surprised this awful video hasn't been taken down by now.

The Grenfell disaster was reported all over the world, and now the whole world can view this vile video.

What impression will it give of us as a country?

The men have been arrested under section 4a of the Public Order Act 1986, which covers intentional "harassment, alarm or distress" caused via the use of "threatening, abusive or insulting" words or signs.

Why is it worse than burning effigies of Guy Fawkes?

Absolutely unbelievable.

Guy Fawkes for whatever long winded reason has become entrenched in English culture. The more we understand, the less palatable it is. But we appear to be stuck with it.

White adults carefully preparing models of brown faced people trying to escape death in a burning building and thinking it was " fun" is no the same.

Do you get it now?