Leavers’ views on the deal please.

Joelsnan, the possibility of the war being restarted in Ireland if a hard border is reinstated has been discussed on this forum many times by many different forum members and not just me.

I most certainly do not wish to see the troubles in that island begin once again, but to deny the possibility of such a situation developing, is to bury one's head in the sand.

Of course, burying their heads in the sand is exactly what Brexitiers have been doing since it became clear that the leave campaign leaders had no real plan on how to bring about an orderly Brexit following the referendum.

Davidhs
I wonder what would be smuggled and which way?

Joelsnan, who mentioned smuggling. Should Britain sign a trade agreement with the United States on leaving, then chlorinated chicken could be allowed into Britain through that agreement. The EU would then need hard restrictions on the North-South border to stop that chicken entering the European Union.

Many other examples could be and have been given.

It was obvious from the outset that the promises of end to free movement but keeping all the benefits of free trade would be impossible to achieve. All those Leavers who claim to have not believed the lies,to have studied all the literature and to have used their brains must take responsibility for the mess we are in as it was all so predictable. They can’t just blame the politicians or the EU as it was evident from the start any deal we got would be worse and more expensive than the one we already have.

Don't accuse me of burying my head in the sand Grandad.

My point of view differs from yours but I can assure you, your head is no further above the sand than mine, and countless other leavers.

Grandad1943
Davidhs mentioned smuggling.
Re the chicken, maybe we should start stockpiling chicken wire
If EU are so bothered about chlorinated chicken, let them put a customs border in Eire.
BTW, how many US citizens are dying from eating chlorine dipped chicken? How many of us eat bagels dipped in lye without complaint?

crystaltips
All those Leavers who claim to have not believed the lies,to have studied all the literature and to have used their brains must take responsibility for the mess we are in

I think not.
All those Remainers who have persistently tried to confound a three times agreed democratic process should be hanging their heads in shame. They should have studied the literature re democracy and then researched the EU and used their brains to support the decision to leave.

Joelsnan.

All those learned Leavers must have known their delusions were never going to come to fruition . A lot of the opposition and obfuscation had come from extreme Brexiteers not just remainers btw. However many supported the decision to leave, and it wasn’t exactly a landslide, must have known the promises made were impossible to achieve. It’s like taking the eggs out of a cake that is already baked.

It may not have been a landslide crystaltipps but the majority who voted, voted to leave. Not because they were deluded but because that's what they believed in.

It's a DREADFUL deal. May has sold us down the river.

I have read snippets of it - ones pointed out by people who have had the time to read the weighty document, but one that concerns me greatly is the future of the Euro.

Yes, the Euro, the currency we don't use and chose not to have.

It would seem that the EU has tied us to bailing it out for the foreseeable future. The loans taken out by the EU to shore up the Euro - think the Greek disaster - are our responsibility too and I am not sure how long they have us by the short and curlies on that one.

The fact that the EU will be overseeing and approving trade deals we make (and giving us their permission, or not) is not on, notr is the end point of this disastrous and disgusting union. It seems that the transition period can be extended and extended, at the EU's behest.

That's a flimsy oversight from me, written in a hurry, so apologies - but the deal is Leave Means Remain as far as most Leavers can see, and we will continue to pump our billions into the EU.

No wonder the EU have remained quiet. No dissent from that quarter, is there?

I'll fume a bit more later. Have to go...but I am with JRM and all those who feel the deal is totally unacceptable and should be rejected.

I'm getting a little bit peeved about this 'free movement'.
I'm not referring to immigration, I'm referring to us
Some of you talk as if we only travelled freely after the Schengen area was formed.
Did none of you leave the uk before the 1975?
From 1965 to 1969 ( when I got married) I sailed many many times on private yachts to Oostende/Calais/Dunkirk.
I travelled overland to Italy, I went to mainland Spain and the Beleric islands.
The only difference now is: we drive straight off the ferry but still have to show my passport when fling into an airport.

Joelsnan, whether chlorinated chicken is harmful or not to those that eat it, it is EU food standards rules state that it should not be used in food processing or imported into the European Union. Therefore situations such as the foregoing will mean that the EU will require a hard border in Ireland if Britain signs a trade agreement with the United States following Brexit.

As for Democracy, I voted remain, but like many, I accept the outcome of the referendum. What I am waiting for is after two and half years of negotiations, would be for the leavers to demonstrate how Brexit can be accomplished without severely damaging the British economy and risking the peace in Ireland.

After all, on the day that article fifty was signed the then Brexit Secretary stated that "these will be the easiest negotiations ever concluded.

What a joke this whole ridiculous crowd of leave leaders are in making Britain the laughing stock of the world.

Day6
I've aid over and over: it will be the euro that will bring the eu down, the debt is unsustainable. But wait until next year when Italy goes ahead with their budget. That will really topple the applecart.

It maybe what people “believe in” but there are so many variations of that “belief” that satisfying all of them is nigh on impossible, maybe that is just about dawning on some people? If you truly believe it is worth all the division, hatred, expense, time taken, which could be spent on domestic issues such as health , social care, education, then no amount of evidence will convince you otherwise.

I wonder whether after clause 50 has been evoked that there is a possibility of going back for the UK. Its like the analogy of the Golf Club. After leaving you can rejoin but have no one who wants to play a game with you.

Other ports if Dover/ Folketsone is over crowded could be Hamburg or Rotterdam, they are the only ones big enough and would go to Newcastle perhaps.
For those who thought that travelling was never a problem before EU membership, well thats not true. Your passport was stamped and DH who travelled exstensively to England before we married was stopped several times and questioned. If you wanted to stay longer you needed a visa.

Whatever is happening, nothing sounds as pitiful as the leavers who complain about bullying. The meetings are typical of most busness meetings and if you attend then you don't go running home and say you were bullied. Its what the press is thirsting for to make the UK look silly and inefficient.

crystaltips
But who has created the hatred? It appears that those who cannot accept a democratically won result seem to be the ones creating the most division and hatred with their claims regarding the mental capacity of leavers, their racism, xenophobia, basing their vote on lies etc., etc.
Had those naysayers accepted the decision instead of inciting all of this division and hatred we would be moving towards the exit as a united nation, having negotiators who were allowed to work on behalf of the democratic result instead of being hobbled by remainers allowing the EU to take us for a ride because of the internal division.

Can anyone explain to me why the EU, who gave us concession after concession, should now put us before it's members when it comes to negotiating our exit/ I mean, these are the people that have been successfully negotiating our trade deals for the past 30 odd years. But, I guess they did that by 'bullying'. We'll soon find out when we have to do that ourselves. Oh, silly me; Liam Fox has been doing that for the past couple of years with such outstanding results....

Joel'snan. I can think of a lot that gets smuggled into the UK at present, Drugs, Migrants, Fags, Booze and all sorts of fake branded goods. Customs are either too cash strapped or lazy to do anything about it.
I am trying hard to think of any commodity that is being smuggled out of the U.K. Any suggestions.

I don't think US food products are going to be on the agenda

MargaretX
At least then you felt as if you were 'travelling' unlike now where if you miss the sign on the motorway you won't know that you've entered another country.

Davidhs
Then it should be the UK that should be fighting for a customs border rather than the EU. That is unless the EU are worried about an exodus of remainers, i can't think of little more that Eire residents might want smuggled from UK.

Labaik
Could you please expand your argument re: concssion after concession.
With regard to trade deals the one partially agreed with Canada has been going on for about 7years and still not 100% ratified by all 27. Most EU trade deal negotiations run into years and years before implemented because of all of the bureaucracy involved. I think we can do better than that at least we wont need the approval of 27 other countries.

Ironically it seems that JRM's lot, the ERG, are objecting to the 'deal' because it will mean loss of sovereignty as we won't have a say in the EU during the 'transition' period. Which is odd, because I thought, according to Leavers, that we'd already lost it.

Nadine Dorris went a bit further and bemoaned the fact that it means that we won't have any MEPs... Did she not realise that that is what would happen when we left the EU?

At least then you felt as if you were 'travelling' unlike now where if you miss the sign on the motorway you won't know that you've entered another country.

I hope that was a tongue in cheek remark, Petra

I find that the fact that all the written signs are in a different language is quite a good indication that one has crossed a national border...

And, with regard to Free Movement'; of course we'll be able to travel in the EU as we always have.

The more important point was that it enabled EU citizens to freely live, work and study in any EU country with the minimum of red tape (or none at all). It's that which people are so cross about losing.

I voted to leave and absolutely hate the deal. That is the problem in having a remainer in charge of exiting the European Union. I have written to my MP to ask him to vote against deal in parliament and send in letter of no confidence in May. I am furious Raab says deal he saw only 2 weeks ago was very different and May and Ollie Robinson negotiated changes behind his back.

The DUP have been stitched up and now the republic of Ireland within the EU, will help make laws that N.I has to obey. Not good for peace in Ireland.

We are paying £39 billion + another £20 for a 2 year minimum extension. That is not stopping sending our money to the EU.

At the moment the CFP states that 92% of our fish are caught by EU and only 8% by UK. EU also demanding they keep fishing rights through transition + extension. That is not taking back control of our fishing quotas.

May says we will take control of immigration. With no border checks in Ireland our only land border with EU immigrants will come into republic of Ireland, through N.I. and then fly to England all without checks before they land. Not taking back control of immigration.

Trade deal. If we disagree with EU in process of set up, as we most likely will, then an independent panel made up of both EU and UK will arbitrate. If still disagree ECJ decides.

Once in customs union for transition period almost impossible to escape. Where else in life can you not get out of an agreement if you longer want to be in it? Like Hotel California, you can check out but never leave.

Once in Custom's Union too closely aligned to EU to do meaningful trade deals with other countries unless they want to also trade with EU. Losing any competitive advantage of leaving.

Quite honestly I would prefer no deal than this disgusting deal. If we left with no deal we could do trade deals with other countries more easily. We already sell more to other countries than we do to EU, although negotiated through EU. Most of these countries say we can continue to do same trade if we leave EU with or without trade deal with EU. We would be better going to do a trade deal with EU at a later date once other deals already in place and we in stronger position.