Police knocking criminals off mopeds

It isn't always deprived children who commit crime.
Its very naive to think so.
Nobody has a definitive answer to the 'nature or nurture' question.
If there are thousands of deprived children and only a minority who fall into crime, then that kind of disproves your theory.

Luckygirl a very thoughtful and interesting post, thank you.

I was fence-sitting regarding the 'nudging' of these young offenders off their mopeds, mainly because of the possible dangers to other road users and pedestrians. If other ways of catching them has proved to be ineffective it would seem to be proactive way to catch them 'red-handed', then the due process of law and hopefully their rehabilitation could begin.
Something needs to be done and urgently because of the dangers they pose and because, unless stopped, they could turn to even worse crimes. I'm sure that, behind every group of young people doing this, there are gangmasters and they are the ones who need to be stopped.

Do we still have a Child Guidance Service in this country? I have no idea these days.
The education system has to change so that young people with non-academic skills feel valued and valuable, rather than thrown on the scrap-heap while the teachers battle with tests, stats, form-filling etc.
I agree
It seems to me to be a case of either university or the 'little hope' alternative whereas society needs people with many other skills too.

MissAdventure - If there are thousands of deprived children and only a minority who fall into crime, then that kind of disproves your theory.

Not so - for instance, smoking is known to have a close causative association with lung cancer, but some smokers get lucky and do not get it. None of us dispute the fact that smoking causes lung cancer.

The kid-glove treatment that some of you suggest has been tried and tested and clearly doesn't work hence the need to halt this despicable type of robbery by knocking down the mopeds. If this is going to deter these thugs then so be it.

Jalima1108 - we do still have a child guidance service in theory - it is now known as CAMHS (Child and Adolescent Mental Health Service). Sadly is it renowned for its underfunding, absence of qualified staff and huge waiting lists. In fact it is now a bit of a joke. One service had an office and a secretary/receptionist, but no professional staff - the poor lady on the phone spent her whole time telling people there are no staff so no appointments.

I was at first horrified by this until my DS explained to me the nature and number of the crimes being committed and the ordinary citizens who suffer. Looking at reduction in the numbers of offences it does seem to work. It occurs to me that it may work because of the prestige involved. Committing moped crime probably carries a certain amount of prestige, being knocked off the bike (even if the police don't apprehend you) is demeaning. Perhaps this policy would do even better if the 'nudging' could be posted in social media, the crash helmet would make the offender unidentifiable except to close friends, who would have a good laugh at him.

MissA there has been much research and debate about the genetic predisposition of some males to commit violent crimes. Apparently there is some evidence to support that theory but it is also stated that having those genes does not mean, in most cases, that person will go on to lead a life of crime.

That is shocking Luckygirl!

trisher I was listening to the car radio yesterday and callers were talking about mopeds being 'rammed' by police cars!
They seemed to be missing the point.

The state of CAMHS service throughout the country is extremely well known and documented and has been for years - improving it was yet another of TMs false promises. I’m surprised that anyone is shocked at this fact

Just give it a rest maryeliza will you.

or can't you help yourself?

No it’s you that can’t help yourself - had you really no idea about the state of CAMHs? But can comment freely on the evilness of today’s young people? You’ll be telling us next tbwt you’ve no idea of what’s happening to SureStart and what that means to vulnerable families.

One service had an office and a secretary/receptionist, but no professional staff - the poor lady on the phone spent her whole time telling people there are no staff so no appointments.
That is shocking Luckygirl
I knew things were bad and services were stretched to their limits but that is dreadful.
Of course, many parents used to come to Child Guidance Clinics in despair at their "dreadful out-of-control children" (sic) - but, of course, it was the parents who so often needed the guidance, which they got in those days.

There is a clear correlation between areas of deprivation and crime rates; and the prison population has a preponderance of people with untreated mental health problems, drug dependence, alcoholism, poor education, and deprived backgrounds.

There is a strong case to be made out for tackling these problems at source with resources for preventive work in housing, education, social care, drug withdrawal centres etc. The withering of all these services under austerity simply compounds the problems.

Unfortunately those making our laws and deciding spending priorities seem unaware of these needs and endlessly persist in underfunding in these areas.

I've posted before that I think we need to pay more tax (not a popular view, probably). However, I'm sure no-one would disagree that those evading tax need to be made to face their responsibilities and laws enabling the rich or companies to avoid tax should be tightened up.

DH said this morning that he heard that some people in receipt of carers' allowance are being made to pay back money which they were paid by mistake if they were working as well! Thousands of state pensioners have been told that they have been overpaid too; I'm not sure if they will be asked to pay back the overpayments.
Scraping the barrel when there are other means for the government to bring in money is just not the right way to go about it.

Deprivation my eye. That's just another excuse for criminals to steal off others, an easy way out because half of them are unemployable anyway so are not in any hurry to look for work.

It's the life they choose----to drink themselves into oblivion, to take drugs,etc etc nobody holds a gun to their heads to do these things. It's of their choosing or they wouldn't do it.

There is help out there for them but they choose not to accept it. Doctors surgeries are full of leaflets on such matters and would be the first port of call to those willing to turn their lives around----they wouldn't be refused.

EllanVannin, you seem totally unable to look at this situation from anything other than your own hopeless, bigoted perspective.

MissA absolutely right! 11.14.01 post ( top of the page)

I agree Jalima and think income tax should rise slightly, council tax is going to rise now to pay for more policing at least.

Nobody has a definitive answer to the 'nature or nurture' question.
It was always a source of debate
Both was the general consensus I think.

Yes you're right Jalimall the sociobiological theory that we are a product of both.

I'd like to point out that my post of Fri 30-Nov-18 18:53:25
was deleted at my own request, not because it broke guidelines as stated by the moderators.
I had to ask twice before it was deleted because it contained rather personal information, for no other reason.

GNHQ - this happened once before - are you aware that your mods at the weekends post the message that the post was deleted for breaking guidelines even if it was at the poster's request? This only seems to happen at weekends.

Listening to Radio Four seems to sometimes be one continuous gripe about underfunding. Police, roads,NHS, schools, arts, Social Services..... the list is endless. All hands out begging for government money. And the government only has the money we pay in taxes. Taxation does need to be raised slightly but only the Liberals had the courage to say so and look where it got them!

I also have heard on more than one occasion of firms (care homes, vegetable farmers, etc) employing people who work and are paid by agencies in other (eastern) EU countries where wages are considerably lower. They pay tax in the UK, but not National Insurance. (One care home paid all its staff including the chief exec this way.) Since the low paid don’t pay tax this is a big loop hole - assuming its true.

The reason we have a continuous gripe about underfunding is entirely down to government austerity polices. Our public services are being devastated. "all hands out begging for government money" - I for one am relieved to see that even Police Chiefs are now speaking out. We can't continue to cut, cut and cut some more and expect our public services to meet needs.
It's plain wrong for prisons, care homes, residential / foster care for children etc etc to be run on a profit making basis. We need to invest in good public services. It's our taxes as Nfk says and we can afford it. We can't afford not to as the rise in violent crime, decrease in length of life, child poverty and neglect etc etc, shows.

And the government only has the money we pay in taxes

This is just not true. The government is able to create as much money as it likes to fund public spending. Economists will tell you this over and over and over again but the general public has been fed this lie, that taxes fund spending, for so long that it refuses to lie down and die.

Cuts to public spending, which are causing very real and serious problems, are a political decision by a party which wishes to privatise as many public services as it possibly can. If you (speaking generally, not specifically to Nfk) voted tory you voted for this. Cuts are completely unnecessary.

A national budget is not the same as a household budget.

It's when you read about council consultants pocketing £900 a day for 14 days,which is an estimated £245,000 from the public purse,does anyone realise that they're being shafted.
This is just one council in the country. We pay council tax towards the upkeep of policing our areas and if it's all going in the above direction it's no wonder that council coffers are empty,roads in need of maintaining,street lamps out,weeds growing all over pavements------plus police shortages.
Where's the incentive for the police to do their job when some fat-cat is " stealing " what could be,further wages for more officers ?

In this particular council consultants have cost £2.6m in 2 years !
The Labour council are forever pleading poverty in this area-------can anyone see why ? Afterall it has to pay its " consultants " £1,000 a day first and foremost. Consultants ? Managers ? Any need for both ?

Then again Labour has always been of the mentality in the " jobs for the boys " association ! At least if the Tories had been voted in they'd have put paid to the " non-jobs " and got rid of leeches like this.

It's not as if any services have improved for all the obscene payments these consultants receive-----things have steadily got worse !