So no hope from Jeremy either?

Labour must keep open the option of a second EU referendum with remain on the ballot paper, Keir Starmer has said.

After Theresa May’s Brexit deal was overwhelmingly voted down on Tuesday, leaving Labour as potential kingmakers in shaping the nature of Britain’s exit from the European Union, the shadow Brexit secretary said Labour must either instruct the government to negotiate a close economic relationship with the EU based on a customs union, or campaign for a further public vote.

It comes after a leaked poll commissioned by the pro-EU Best for Britain campaign suggested that voters would be less likely to back Labour if the party was committed to stopping Brexit, while a number of junior shadow ministers have said they would consider their positions if Corbyn conceded to pressure to back a second referendum.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/19/brexit-labour-must-keep-open-option-of-second-referendum

For Annie who apparently knows that all the speeches before the last election were stage managed. Corbyn speaking outside the Sage Gateshead to a huge crowd.Please can you explain how speaking to 5000 people in the open air on a public site was managed? Anyone could go there, anyone could listen

I am sure that anyone who has the most basic understanding of opinion polling and statistical theory would accept that a properly conducted poll of such a large sample of 25,000, will, indeed give a very accurate reflection of the views of 124,000 Labour Party members.

Can anybody tell me what Corbyns latest positition is?

I watched John McDonnell on Newsnight, confused me.

I watch Politics Live, no idea as Labour MP's re as divided as Conservatives.

Is it still to aim for a General Election or has that ship sailed and those who continue to speak of it are just wasting their breath and avoiding having to say where Labour are heading.

McClusky didn’t seem so positive about a general election soon when he was interviewed today.

Corbyn’s latest position will depend on polls

Can anybody tell me what Corbyns latest positition is?

He used to be uncertain, but now he's not so sure

?

POGS Quote[ Can anybody tell me what Corbyn's latest positition is? ] End Quote.

POGS, As has been stated on this forum any number of times, Corbyn's position is still in line with the party conference policy. That policy states that priority for the parliamentary party is in the first place to take every opportunity presented to bring forward a general election. Should the preceding not prove to be possible, to only then attempt to seek a second referendum.

As Theresa May is very likely to bring the same deal back to parliament next week, it could then happen that many Conservative MPs will again vote down the deal. However, with time running out until the Brexit deadline they may then not support her in a second vote of no confidence.

So, the prospect of a general election is still very much alive, and that is what the wider Labour movement in the country want most of all, as per conference policy.

That is what Corbyn is abiding by POGS

So ignore the country in turmoil and put power above all else

POGS, "As has been stated on this forum any number of times, Corbyn's position is still in line with the party conference policy. That policy states that priority for the parliamentary party is in the first place to take every opportunity presented to bring forward a general election. Should the preceding not prove to be possible, to only then attempt to seek a second referendum."
------u

I understand that BUT once Theresa May got a vote of confidence what is left to try and get a General Election other than overriding Parliamentary Procedures and Protocol which has already started in my opinion .

Corbyn is not advocating a 2nd referendum is he. Labour
PLP are split on calling for a 2nd referendum, the front bench equally.

It could be said that if Corbyn/Labour are not shifting from their Red Line in getting a General Election then no matter what the government brings forward as a ' Deal' Labour will vote it down as it has a Red Line which is General Election or nothing at this moment in time.

When will it move forward from the General Election first mantra, will it / could it move forward and as they keep saying ' The clock is ticking '.

Have I explained what I mean?

Anniebach, this country has a housing crisis, the Univeral credit crisis, a pay crisis with many working people far worse off than in 2010.

More have to turn to food banks every day to feed their families, and the Gig Economy continues to grow.
The foregoing Anniebach is just a small section of what Tory austerity has brought to working people in Britain.

So yes to gain government should be a priority for the Labour Party along with stopping a "no deal" Brexit. Only Conservative party members and "closet Tories" would seem to wish for otherwise.

Only far left party members and “closet trots” would choose a General Election at this time.

POG, as I have stated many times in the wider Labour movement desperately want a General Election and the party conference reflected that in setting out its Brexit policy.

I would be the first to agree that the Brexit situation has very much changed in the five months since that conference and become much more serious. However, there is still the major prospect of the Tory Party in the House of Commons imploding in the next two weeks, and a general election would then follow.

It is high stakes that Corbyn and the Labour movement are carrying out, but many activists in the wider Labour movement continue to support that policy it would seem.

Our company is carrying out a stage three industrial safety course this week for the Unite Union and the above is what our tutor on the course is feeding back to the office being that many on the course are grassroots branch and workplace activists.

Grandad

" it is high stakes that Corbyn and the Labour movement are carrying out, but many activists in the wider Labour movement continue to support that policy it would seem."
--

High Stakes?

Those who are not of the Corbyn mentality , supporter such as myself see the Labour position nothing more than playing dangerous politics and certainly not putting country before party , which is the usual chant from Labour and it's allies against the Conservatives.

What if Corbyn won a General Election?

What I see is a party that is saying we want all the benefits of being an EU but we are leaving the EU. This is the same old, same old argument of ' NO CHERRY PICKING ' which Cameron and May know only too well.

I hear Labour categorically state ' We will get a deal if we are negotiating ' , what deal though? If their negotiating skills are we will not leave without a deal does that not say Labour will accept any deal the EU wishes to give it or not.

If the Labour game is still at such a dangerous moment in time to get a General Election at the expense of ALL ELSE Labour should come clean with the electorate and get it's Parliamentary Labour Party Members such as Cooper, Kinnock, Umuna from deviating from the Labour Party aim of a General Election .

Labour like the Conservatives voted for a Refendum, triggering Article 50, we all know Corbyn wanted May to move quicker on Article 50, They provided the voter with their Manifestoes and yet they like some in the Conservative party are now proving to be nothing short of having no scruples because they stood as candidates knowing they whole heartedly disagreed with their own parties Manifestoes. In effect they are hypocrites at best shamefully disloyal and self centered at worst.

All I gather , even from you , is Labour has one thought, Labour has one destination and that is POWER to bring in a Socialist Government and doesn't have a b----y clue how under a Labour government the Brexit talks would or could proceed.

More time wasted !

And Labour is using brexit in the hope of gaining power

If Corbyns Labour get in, I predict a major exodus by big businesses out of the UK.

Corbyn is momentums puppet has voted against the Labour Party so many times in his "Parliamentary career".

JC gives the impression that he has never had an original thought or idea of how to help the UK or bring about Brexit.

GG 13

Plenty of commentaries mentioning the prospect of a Corbyn government and lack of investment, companies taking flight.

Brexit with a No Deal followed by a Corbyn , McDonnell, Momentum Labour government is my worst nightmare.

JC is on record as being anti EU, but is willing to drop all of his long held principles in order to force a GE, and then run the UK into the ground like his buddy Chavez has done to Venezuela!!!

GG

I had little response to my thread on Venezuala, Chavez and Moduro even though it is current news.

Can I recommend watching :-

BBC ' REVOLUTION IN THE RUINS: THE HUGO CHAVEZ STORY ' shown 16th Jan 2019. It is well worth watching for those interested in the politics of then and it's resonance with the politics of today.

POGS as you are so interested in Venezuela I recommend this article nacla.org/news/2018/05/18/united-states’-hand-undermining-democracy-venezuela which details current and previous USA policy towards that country and its involvement in undermining the socialist regime. The prime reason being of course that Venezuela is an oil rich counry which was becoming increasingly influential in the region and which might have resulted in a loss of US power. To imagine that the situation in that country was not and is not worsened by the actions, first of Obama and now of the Trump administration is failing to understand quite how threatened the US feels by any socialist country on its borders. The interesting question I suppose is how would the Trump administration feel about a socialist government in the UK and what measures would they be prepared to undertake to destroy or discredit it?

Well trisher the economic problems with Venezuala, which was one of the wealthiest countries , began when the Socialist government nationalised the oil industry , the banks etc. under Chavez. Now the Socialist government under Moduro has simply become a Dictatorship and anybody who believes otherwise is a fool.

I don't have a clue what Trump or any other country would do under a Socialist government with Corbyn/McDonnell/Momentum in government but I think as for ' destroying /discrediting ' the UK I think it will not take a foreign country to do so.

Actually POGS if you read more widely about Venezuela you will discover that the situation there has always had more to do with the fluctuating price of oil than with the beliefs of the government in power and that the most destructive policy was none of the socialist policies introduced but the control of currency which led to corruption and a blackmarket in dollars. A more balanced view might be
Those who offer up the petro-state do so to shift attention away from Chávez, aiming to burnish his image – and political appeal – for posterity by shielding gains made during his tenure from the crisis that his policies have left after his death. Meanwhile, those who blame socialism willfully downplay how policies familiar to previous boom eras, policies undertaken by governments of very different stripes before, drive the current crisis. Instead, they seek to keep alive the claim many have tried and failed before, that Venezuela’s chief barrier to lasting prosperity is its leaders and their management of oil dependency, not dependency itself.
Of course it is easier to not even consider the effect of a socialist government on the 'special relationship'

trisher

Your link asks me to ' sign up ' so obviously I am not going to do that so I cannot access your link.

trisher

" Actually POGS if you read more widely about Venezuela "
----

Oh I I have read and viewed plenty on the subject thank you.

Indeed we have been discussing Venezuala for some time on Gransnet as the comments from Corbyn/McDonnell started to flow .

trisher

Who / what is your quote from on your post of 20.13