Anna Soubry

This thread seems to have turned into another Brexit one, but I just wanted to say that I thought Day6 made a very good point much earlier in the thread about Anna Soubry, I think I was guilty of what Day6 suggested, that I did think it was worse for a group of men to surround a woman M.P. than I would have thought had it been a male M.P.

I also thought the police were in a bit of a tricky spot, men like that group do love to be painted as martyrs, which they would have been if the police had intervened.

MaizieD Thu 10-Jan-19 10:21:47

"God knows I have taken to task gransnet posters who have chosen to make their point against other gransnet posters by using the words such as Brexshitters/Road Kill /Vermin /Natzis/Racists /Xenophobic.

God might know, POGS but I don't think many of the regular posters on Brexit themes would actually confirm this image you have of yourself as the forum politeness monitor.

I've always been quite impressed at the level of civility we've managed over the past 2 years. Compared to Mumsnet and twitter... hmm"
--

Maizie d your last sentence is far from the truth and the ability for posters to forget what they have said astounds me.

As you have turned my post into a personal rather than as I scribed a general point and posted in a manner that requires a response of a personal nature I will remind you too of ' just a couple of posts ' you have made over time.:-

MaizieD Thu 18-Jan-18 22:33:03

"I think Leave voters are just a teeny bit sensitive to the fact that they are, so to speak, in bed with racists..."
-----

MaizieD Fri 19-Jan-18 09:14:54

"Remoaners on here...

I have held off for a long time but I think from now on Leavers are Brexshitters"
--

I will stand by my words and if you feel you need to call me
some sort of ' forum politeness monitor.' then that is your prerogative.

My point is whatever an individuals politics whether it be a Gransnet poster or MP , left or right of politics don't be a hypocrite and only care if it fits your spin, your bias when it could be pointed out on other occasions your / their comments/feelings have been the opposite to the point you/they are making on any other day.

I do think seeing a woman surrounded by a group of men more troubling than seeing a man surrounded, not that I think it acceptable for a msn, , but how many abused women die at the hands of men in this country every week . Equality doesn’t give equal physical strength .

True POGS i was told in a post at the end of last year, on a politics thread ‘ you are now a target ‘ , this was a personal threat

ilove is there an example of these fascist thugs surrounding a male MP? My guess is no because they wouldn’t do that. The average right wing thug as well as being racist will be sexist. I wouldn’t call it interfering for the police to clear a way to allow an MP to freely enter their place of work and the fact that these ‘men’ might have shouted ‘victim’ is hardly a good reason to allow any MP to be put in harm’s way

Excellent point about physical strength and concepts of equality annie and the correlation with sex. Just as there is a correlation with age for example. Is an 80 year old equal to a 40 year old in physical strength? Doesn’t mean they are not ‘equal’ in a wider sense

MaizieD that blows out of the water any sense of ‘civility’
You think you have been engaged in on the subject of Brexit.
The truth is that on GN, as well as MN and other social media, Remainers have been nearly out of their heads with
Outrage that the vote didn’t go their way, and felt that gave them leave to be as ghastly as possible.They have been that way for two years, and possibly will go on being so even after we leave the EU at the end of March.

POGS
You don't often post but when you do ???
I would imagine that there are several posters who are ( from now on ) thinking twice about how they describe brexiters.

You do strain my civility to its utmost, lemon!

If those two 'examples' are the only ones POGS can find after 2+years of pretty solid posting (cue POGS frantically searching for more ) then I think it's a pretty pathetic effort. You'll note that I didn't actually refer to Leavers as 'racists' in the first quote and perhaps the context of the second might be useful; i.e it was in response to Remainers being called 'remoaners'.

What a wild imagination you have, Petra.

You are probably right about the thugs not surrounding a man Maryeliza54 .
Also you are right that men and women should be treated as being equal in a wider sense than physical strength, but there are still so many situations, such as the one that occurred at that men only event where those young women were groped by those men, where there is an imbalance of power, and women are aware that the power can always be reinforced by physical means.

MaizieD
Not at all. I'm just very pleased that yours and Varians double standards have been exposed.
I stand by my last sentence in the post above.

Maizie d

" If those two 'examples' are the only ones POGS can find after 2+years of pretty solid posting (cue POGS frantically searching for more grin ) then I think it's a pretty pathetic effort."
--

Oh I could find plenty more with minimal effort but I remembered the thread and thinking at the time this is not the first time Leavers had been called Brexshitters.

I tried to make my point initially by making a generalised comment but if and when a poster turns into a personal confrontation then I think it is only right, fair and proper to provide evidence, so I did.

maryeliza54 Thu 10-Jan-19 14:09:43

" ilove is there an example of these fascist thugs surrounding a male MP?"

Look how Labour MP Jim Murphy and I think Eddie Izzard were treated in Scotland.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2015-scotland-32581803
----

Look at how Jacob Rees-Mogg was treated :-

www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/feb/02/jacob-rees-mogg-involved-in-scuffle-at-university-campus
----

Look at how Farage was treated in Scotland :-

www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/may/16/nigel-farage-edinburgh-protesters-van

Remember the time he was with his family in the pub?
--

Nasty people believe in thuggery, abusive behaviour and rhetoric and they are not from any one side of an arguement or politics. They can be from the left or right of politics.
They can be passionate Remain or Leave voters. They usually hide behind anonymity and think it OK to feel differently about who or what is being threatened because it suits their own agenda. They often feel emboldened by being part of a group or possibly engaged in activism which they see as some sort of narcasistic way to make others see the world through their eyes or abide by their way of doing things.

The thing they have in common is ' They are Nasty People ' who at times overstep a line of decency and probably end up doing ' their cause' more harm than good.

Debate,, arguement, questioning, sarcasm or proving your point is nowhere near the above and for the most part that is what people engage in and long may it live but the likes of those surrounding Soubry et al are not prepared to do that they enjoy bullying and and see no problem with their actions because that is inherent in their nature, character in the first place whether they are from the left or right makes not a jot of difference.

I don't think I suggested that they were from left or right, was more thinking about whether they would try to bully men in the same way as women. Since then I have seen a video of the journalist Owen Jones being surrounded by the same thugs as Anna Soubry, maybe the thugs are not as sexist as I thought!

Good post POGS

Nastiness, thuggery and loutish behaviour is not confined to any particular group in politics.

They are obviously right-wing thugs who particularly target women, but also see the likes of left-wing Remainer Owen Jones as a legitimate target.

What has happened to our once tolerant society since this brexit nonsense reared its ugly head?

ilove is there an example of these fascist thugs surrounding a male MP?
the other puzzling thing is why they called Anna S a Nazi

What has happened to our once tolerant society since this brexit nonsense reared its ugly head?
I don't know varian - were you a very tolerant person too until Brexit?

I hope I am still a tolerant person. I am a Liberal Democrat and believe in an open tolerant society, which I think we had in this country before this brexit madness took hold.

However I cannot stand by and watch our country being consumed by the worst sort of prejudice and delusions. For patriots who really care about our country's future, any kind of brexit is intolerable.

I think, on the whole, we are a pretty tolerant nation but Brexit seems to have brought out the worst in a lot of us.

A lot of the nastiness started prior to the Referendum and political discourse came knocking at a certain moment in time in my mind.

The era of a ' kinder, gentler politics'.

ah, yes

Bollocks.