European Spring

We have benefited so much from our EU membership.

OK, this poll was taken last year, about two years after the ridiculous UK referendum, but it shows how wrong these leavers were then and still are.

"Two thirds of Europeans believe their country has benefited from being a member of the EU, the highest percentage since 1983 and an increase of three percentage points since the autumn.

In addition 60% of Europeans consider EU membership a good thing, according to the latest Eurobarometer published on Wednesday 23 May."

www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/headlines/eu-affairs/20180522STO04020/eurobarometer-survey-highest-support-for-the-eu-in-35-years

No, Crystaltipps except for the one I addressed to you none of my following emails had any reference to you in them. Generally my replies are based on the texts of the posts immediately above the one I am writing, without even noticing who wrote them.

If the OP was intending to compare the Arab Spring with any “European Spring” there is none, because we are all democracies and can vote any administration out.
Macron in France was voted in on a wave of anti establishment sentiment but there is still a minority of “have nots” who want change and there probably always will be. In the UK we have full employment* yet a minority do not see the benefits of that and want change. Any violent disorder by a minority has to be controlled, by tear gas if needed.

* We must have full employment, we have 2 million plus foreign workers in the UK.

Well it seems we’re all in ‘uncharted waters’ now after last night.?

Crystaltips/Monica

Nothing ' smug ' is going on if you are directing your posts to me .

I have not spoken about the UK/Brexit/
taking back control etc. because I was answering the OP :-

European Spring

" Do you think the ' EU ' tide is turning?

If we do not give a toss about other countries when we make laws, they will return the compliment.

I agree crystaltipps. I'm afraid the propaganda re making 'our own' trading agreements is nonsense created to persuade the gullible. We are no longer a great power, we have many problems with our economy and the axis of power in the world has swung east. The Australians are a lot more interested in China and what's happening in the South China Sea and Indonesia than they are in trading with the UK. Similarly, the US who are pulling back from trading with the UK and Europe (unless it's totally in their interest, eg. chlorinated chicken), and from being involved in any more military support.

There isn’t a federal state of Europe and to think we can make decisions without a thought or care for other countries and what is happening there hasn’t happened for centuries. If the current apology for a government is anything to go by, I wouldn’t have any trust in their decision making abilities. So this belief that running our own trading arrangements means two fingers up to any other country is the stuff of UKIP dreams.

Oh I see crystaltipps.

The UK will always be affected by what happens in other countries, as is/will every country in the world.

Out of the Federal States of Europe, which is what the French-German axis is aiming for we will be able to make uni-lateral decisions.

There is a smug superiority in the assumption that the U.K. will somehow be unaffected by events in Europe if we are outside the EU and have “taken back control “ and other meaningless sound bites.

crystaltipps I agree with you. Look at the British Nationalist extremists that UKIP now fraternises with and I see in Momentum, if not nationalist extremism, a group of people who want to impose their views on everyone. Look at what they have been doing in the Labour Party.

crystaltipps, sorry but I have not seen any "smug" posts on this thread, or anyone pertaining to have a "superior mentality"

If anything as "Brexit" related threads go, so far it has been polite and civi with interesting posts.

Anyone who thinks the U.K. is immune from populism is rather blinkered. Just pointing to minority parties in Europe and saying this is evidence that we shouldn’t be associating with them is simply wrong. If the EU has problems ( don’t we have big problems?) then surely it is better to work together to solve them rather than have this smug superior mentality

I do think that people confuse being against the morals, ethics and politics of the EU with being anti European.

I love Europe, have lived in mainland Europe, but I can see disaster looming for the EU it has become too big. The Euro is being kept afloat by Germany and the ECB.

I worry that if we do not leave in March that the UK will be dragged down with the rest. If we leave and have economic problems for a while it is within the UK’s grasp to climb back up on our own terms and not be shackled to other failing states.

We are ‘an island nation’ as said, probably mentally as well as geographically. But we have our own strengths. We can be good Europeans without being in the E.U.

M0nica Mon 14-Jan-19 21:07:26.

"POGS I think you insult our intelligence. Everything you mention has been well covered in the UK media."
---

Oh dear!

POGS I think you insult our intelligence. Everything you mention has been well covered in the UK media.

I certainly knew of them all, so I pretty sure most GN members will be aware of them as well.

Belgium being without a government is so common , the news is when they have a working government.

Junkers can want as much further union in the EU as he wants, but it is the 27 who will decide and they certainly do not want further integration

If you want to know what a populist government brings, look at the US.

It will be the euro that brings the eu down

I actually agree with you, petra to the extent that if anything does bring it down it will be the euro. But I don't think it will get to that stage.

I will be with them again soon so the debate will continue

Doesn't sound much like a debate to me, more a meeting of true minds which inhabit the same bubble.

We couldn't vote in the referendum in 2016 as we'd been out of the country too long, in France. We'd seen the mixed feelings there about the EU, and this accounts partly for my mixed feelings about Brexit.
We need to take into account problems that the other 27 are having, and their attitudes to the EU. And the other worldwide economic and nationalistic changes.
The UK is perhaps too insular in its outlook, always an island nation.

POGS
It will be the euro that brings the eu down.
This amount of debt can't be sustained.
For years Germany has been more than happy to play lady bountiful ' helping' nudge nudge, wink wink, to prop up poorer countries ( btw they are making billions on the Greek repayments)
But two things have gone wrong, the German people have had enough of their government giving/ lending their money to keep the dream alive. And now we know that the German economic power house is in trouble.
The views above are from ordinary German folk that I was with in Spain this winter.
I will be with them again soon so the debate will continue

In the news tonight:
The German far-right party AfD voted at a party congress Sunday to campaign for the country’s exit if its demands for reforms are not met by the bloc. AfD was originally founded as a Eurosceptic party, but switched its focus to opposing Islam and immigration after rightwingers took over. Delegates were told Saturday the EU didn’t need destroying, just brought back to its sensible core, and that partners like Austria’s Freedom party and Italy’s League would “walk the path with us”. (Guardian)

Belgium functioned extremely well without any government at all for about 18 months a few years ago.

The Gilets Jaunes are demonstrating about austerity in their own country. I'm in agreement with them in that austerity policies are shortsighted and don't solve anything (and the 'rioting' has been an act by opportunists pretending to be part of the Gilet Jaune movement as far as I can see)

High unemployment is a national problem in any country; though I'll concede that the monetary policy which sets the 'rules' for the euro using countries is misguided (this a verdict of many economists, not me, though I believe them)

The euro 'rules' could well be the source of banking problems. I concede that one

The far right governments aren't proposing to take their countries out of the EU

I have said often enough before that 27 countries will need to be convinced that federalism is the way to go and I don't believe that they will be compliant. I can't see the former Soviet countries being very enthusiastic for a start.

The EU needs reform but I think that the breakup of the EU which Leavers are so looking forward to would cause global chaos.. Putin must be so happy...

And if you want to add to the list of gloom, British politics are in complete turmoil and we appear to be on the brink of civil war well, so the politicians keep telling us

I think the European Union is in more trouble than perceived by many. Our news and media coverage is so poor in the UK most people are of the belief the EU is some sort of Shangri-la, epitomy of harmony, a paragon of wealth and no social issues such as food banks and unemployment.

How wrong!

France - Rioting by the gilet jeune.

Germany - Still has no governing coalition.

Belgium - Government coalition broke down it now runs on a minority administration. Happy to be corrected.

Czechoslovakia - Not happy, clappy, slappy between them and the EU.

Hungary - Austria and other EU Governments moving to the far right.

Spain - Greece - Italy - France - Croatia et al high unemployment, especially amongst the young.

The finances / banking issues of many countries, including even Germany are certainly on shakey ground.

Jean Claude Junkers State of the Union Address left nobody without a doubt the European Union is carrying further down the road of a Federal State through ' Ever Closer Union'.

Why worry about an army that we would be in or could veto as EU members? Seems a poor excuse for leaving the EU

We have a serving officer AC.

The UK armed forces do go on exercise with armies from all over the world.

I think we all need to be worried about an EU army controlled by German-French axis!!!