Anarchy in the UK? When politicians ignore the electorate.

Parliament is split, the PM has had 2 years to resolve the impasse, the views of the leavers & remainers based on the referendum are incompatible, nobody knew the full truth of what Brexit meant & we still don’t. Which is why we go back to square one or alternatively a new vote explicitly based on true facts of knowing exactly what leaving will mean for future generations not for the likes of me at my time of life.

the S Times reports aggressive talk of the govt's apparent readiness to invoke martial law to quash possible civil unrest in the event of no deal.

Not much different from authoritarian dictatorships in countries whose governance the Brits disapprove of, then?

If Brexit went through and then we had another referendum after two years there would still be a lot of vociferous people saying facts were scaremongering even though some companies and institutions have actually left Britain and moved headquarters and manufacturing abroad and more are planning such moves.
After two years should people realise they have made a huge mistake it would be too late to turn the clock back. Even if Brexit were stopped now immeasurable damage has already been done and will take years to repair some of the damage. Other countries would take a long time to ever trust the word of the U.K.

I think that I'm fairly unusual (well I am if GN is anything to go by) in having friends on both sides of the Leave/Remain debate who are able to talk about their views and listen to the opposing view without rancour. Initially each side seemed fairly entrenched, but as time has gone on there seems to be a consensus that what was voted on was a concept and that it is reasonable now to return to the country with a strategic plan that the country can vote on.
Whatever the outcome of the present situation I do believe that there will continue to be undercurrents of civil unrest for some time to come.

There won't be "Anarchy in the UK" not while there are enough pubs, and supermarkets stock cheap booze. However if Brexit increases the price of alcohol or disrupts the supply WATCH OUT!!!!

Nick Cohen in the Observer today:

^he secret history of modern Britain is made in obscure corners between men and women taken seriously by no one but themselves. A good time to begin it would be in the winter of 2013/14 when the Institute of Economic Affairs, a rightist outfit that won’t reveal where its money comes from, offered a €100,000 prize to whoever could devise a means of leaving the European Union.

The reason why politicians are now stumbling towards disaster like prisoners marching to the scaffold ought to have been clear from that moment. Obviously, Britain can leave the EU, but only if it is willing to pay an extortionate price. Yet first the institute’s judges, led by Nigel Lawson and Gisela Stuart, then the Leave campaigns of Boris Johnson, Nigel Farage and Dominic Cummings and, finally, Theresa May and Jeremy Corbyn, who even now cannot speak plainly, have refused to acknowledge the harsh truth.

As if to anticipate their failings, the winning entry came from a minor functionary in the British embassy in Manila by the name of Iain Mansfield. He brushed away the difficulties of leaving the EU and offered us our first helping of unicorn cake. Britain, he declared, could enjoy the free movement of capital and goods in the single market, he announced, but stop the free movement of labour.

His triumph marked an ominous moment. Until 2013, even rightwing politicians accepted that they could not have the best of all possible worlds. Britain was tied into an integrated European economy. No government could wrench it away in a couple of years. Britain would have to stay in the customs union, as Liam Fox said in 2012. The most significant thinker in the Brexit movement went further. Richard North, the advocate of “Flexcit”, warned that, as a sudden departure would wreck people’s lives, Britain would have to be like Norway and stay in the single market, “at least in the medium term”, as it dedicated many years, maybe more than a decade, to flexible negotiations about a future arrangement.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jan/26/brexiters-never-had-a-real-exit-plan-no-wonder-they-avoided-the-issue?CMP=share_btn_tw

If anyone read the Ivan Rogers lecture I started a thread on you will find that Cohen expands on one of his themes.

It's no use Leavers moaning about obstructive Remainers. The fact is that there is absolutely no easy way to disentangle the UK from the treaties and legal frameworks that comprise the EU. And the fact that the instigators of the Leave campaigns had absolutely no plan as to how leaving was going to be achieved. They just whipped up a frenzy of emotional negatives (a considerable number of them being untrue) about the EU and threw in a few airy fantasies, like 'we'll still be able to participate in the single market'. They didn't bother to explain how very complex leaving the EU would be. Could it be that they really hadn't given it a thought before raising completely unrealistic expectations in the minds of Leave voters?

Sorry, first paragraph of extract from Cohen's article is unformatted.

It is all so depressing, however you voted.

We have a parliament in disarray at a time when a respectful intelligent and considered approach is needed. All parties are in a mess.

I wonder what David Cameron is doing today? - relaxing in luxury with his family? Sigh.

Good post Maizie

It is hard to know what the Brexit supporters who are claiming MPs are trying to thwart Brexit actually want? Is it Theresa May’s deal? Norway style? Or just no deal? Leave voters are as split as anyone on this. There is no consensus. So what do they want MPs to do? Back May’s deal? Back Boris or whoever? There’s so many options no one is going to be happy. The government have been spectacularly weak on this so blaming parliament brings us into dangerous territory do they really want some kind of military coup/ civil war? This seems to be what the brextremists are threatening. What happened to the idea of parliamentary sovereignty?

The worse thing for a divided country, which ours was even before the referendum, is to have a referendum, which further polarises and entrenches views. In our type of representational democracy, we vote for MPs to do the decision making. If we don't like it we are able get rid of them. Imperfect it may be but this is parliament taking control. How "democratic" is it to waive this system because of in party fighting, and ask the people to decide, on such a complex question, that will have far reaching and possible detrimental effects on our country? It depends how you determine what is democracy, and what type of democracy we want.

What do the Remain voting MP's want?

Some are for Remain full stop.

Some say they respect the Referendum ( hmm) but want a good deal.

Some say they want a Norway Deal

Some want a 2nd Referendum.

Some say they don't want a 2nd Referendum

On and on it goes.

But Lazigirl we are in this situation because we had a referendum.

POGS and what to Leave voting MPs want?

Nonnie I was responding to crystal tips question

" It is hard to know what the Brexit supporters who are claiming MPs are trying to thwart Brexit actually want?

MaizieD you say ‘the Brits disapprove of’.....
Are you not a ‘Brit’ yourself then? This explains a lot.

No, we are not as militant ( hotheaded) as the French, but if
MP’s still go on ignoring the results of the referendum and their own constituences in many cases then they will pay the price.
The only civil unrest I can see will come from angry Remainers when we leave.

How Did We End Up Brexiting Just To Stop The Far-Right Rioting, Asks James O'Brien

www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/james-obrien/how-did-we-end-up-brexit-fascist-far-right/

I think we will get a kind of Brexit. In name to appease the Brexiteers and keeping in the customs union to please remainers. We are a pragmatic nation.
The Tory party needs to lance the likes of JRM who to-day in the Times is referred to as "the boil on the arse of the Tory party". Labour need to ditch Corbyn. Both Parties need reasonable leaders if they want to survive fracture. Although, personally, I would like to see more Political Parties and PR..

Interesting link varian. Good point he makes "why are we allowing fascists to dictate government policy"? How democratic is that, definitely not taking back control?

Because the Tory Party is the natural homes of fascists (Ukip was a joke)?

I agree beammeupscottie

To your previous post not the one re fascists in tory party.

Even home! Never forget who labelled the Tories "the nasty party" and she should know!

MaizieD you say ‘the Brits disapprove of’.....
Are you not a ‘Brit’ yourself then? This explains a lot.

Playing the xenophobic card now, lemon?

I would like to see more Political Parties and PR..

Me too, beammeupscottie. Particularly the PR.

And repeal the Fixed Term Parliaments Act; it's playing havoc with Parliamentary sovereignty.

I’m British and would never phrase things the way you did
MaizieD so am guessing you are either not British or are but choose to sneer at Britain from where? France? Spain?
Xenophobia has nothing to with it from my standpoint.
To say ‘the Brits disapprove of’ is strange phraseology.