Sign up to Gransnet Daily
Our free daily newsletter full of hot threads, competitions and discounts
Subscribe
To quote the Sex Pistols.
We Brits tend to be a mild mannered bunch, unlike the French, many of whom are now sporting yellow vests and protesting in large numbers regarding Macron's political decisions. He has failed the public, and they don't like it.
Our politicians, not all of them, but many of them, are attempting to thwart democracy in stopping Brexit or finding ways to tie us to Brussels indefinitely. Many represent people who voted - overwhelmingly in their constituencies - to leave the EU, but it does not seem to concern them. and they are doing their utmost to keep us tied to Brussels.
From the article
With the rise of the new political classes, a different political dynamic is emerging.
Drawn from similar backgrounds (often middle-class, university educated, with little prior career experience outside politics itself), members of parliament increasingly sound alike, think alike and act alike
The evolution of a monochrome political establishment is producing a radical disconnect, which the Brexit denouement is throwing into stark relief.
What we appear to be witnessing is the corrupt mutation of the notion of the representation of the people in parliament, into _the substitution of the will of the people by the interests of the political class_
*We're entering the realms, no less, of state capture*"
It makes for very interesting, and disturbing reading, whether you are a Leaver or Remainer.
It's written by Professor David Betz is Professor of War in the Modern World, Department of War Studies, King’s College, University of London
and
Professor Michael Rainsborough is Professor of Strategic Theory, and Head of the Department of War Studies, King’s College, University of London.
Their argument is, "for many years now, governments, along with a significant fraction of the population, have calculated that the bulk of the people can either be kept in a state of apathy or bullied into submission."
Time to don yellow vests in the UK? Or do we roll over and die?
briefingsforbrexit.com/the-british-road-to-dirty-war/
If you are in any doubt GG, read my post again. I specifically said that not all Leave voters are racist and not all Leave voters are stupid. If you are a Leave voter, I do not label you. It is for you to decide whether you are able to justify your wish to damage our country, because you are neither racist nor stupid.
POGS
With some posters snobbery is so ingrained that they fail to see that it screams out to us the readers.
Varian your post of 19.15 is quite unbelievable, why can you not realise that people are entitled to their opinions without being labelled.
Not all leave voters are racists, but we can be pretty sure that all the racists voted Leave.
Not all leave voters are stupid, but we can be pretty sure that most of the stupid people voted Leave.
The leave voters who are neither stupid nor racist have a lot of explaining to do.
Nonnie
" POGS I can forgive the unintelligent, they can't help that. However I do think that there are some intelligent people who should know better who show their ignorance."---
Nonnie if you haven't gathered by now calling voters who Leave unintelligent is like a Red Rag to a Bull to me.
You are making the case by using snobbery about the intelligence of voters.
I have to laugh because according to your description of voters and that of many others who ' define ' how and why people voted to suit their view I must be so intelligent because I voted Remain .
UK significantly worse off under all Brexit scenarios – official forecast
Analysis produced by range of government departments suggests GDP could fall by 10.7%
www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/nov/28/uk-significantly-worse-off-under-all-brexit-scenarios-official-forecast-gdp
Goodness me the near hysteria and doom mongering on this thread is quite astounding.
Were we on the brink of a nuclear war or waiting at the gates of Belsen, i could inderstand this but for goodness sake get a grip!
Nonnie
However I do think that there ar some intelligent people who should know better who show their ignorance
I would be very interested if you would please expand on this statement to understand your reasoning.
POGS I can forgive the unintelligent, they can't help that. However I do think that there are some intelligent people who should know better who show their ignorance.
Well said Lazigirl
Problem is we all have cognitive bias, and seek out "facts" which support our views, sometimes quite unconsciously, I know I do. I think it is so difficult to look at all sides of the argument, but the first step is an awareness of our bias, and trying not to close our minds to alternative viewpoints. Difficult.
Beammeupscottie
"You know what. I can forgive the unintelligent for voting out, but I can't forgive the well-educated; the well-off; the elderly Tory shire voter."
If the well educated , well off ,elderly are all Tories who voted Leave prey do tell where the unintelligent, poor,
voters abode ?---
" If I know someone has voted out, I won't have them in my house. They are just Nigel Farage in another guise."
Could we assume from your other posts you would not allow anybody into your house who did not vote for an Independent Scotland too?
Nonnie, well said ???
But Beammeup having a closed mind and deciding that anyone who voted Leave is like NF is just wrong. I agree about the politicians but not that all Leavers are unintelligent. I don't agree with them and think many are simply looking at what is wrong with the EU but not at what we lose by leaving. I wish everyone would look at all sides of the argument and then decide rather than 'I voted xxxx and am sticking with it'. Be open minded.
I take things very seriously, Nonnie. I am appalled at the way the Country is being run. Politicians who care more for their party than the future of Britain.
I just do not think insulting people is going to help anything.
There have been and no doubt will continue to be insults hurled from both sides, which only serve to divide us even more.
What is needed is for a deep breath and for everyone to realise that we are all human, we all want the best for our families and Country, unfortunately we have differing views on what "the best" actually is / can be.
I think that is very hard Beammeup It is a very narrow viewpoint. I think we should all be more open minded and I would welcome a Leaver to my home for a rational debate. In fact I had coffee a couple of weeks ago with someone who has the opposite view to me and we respected each other's opinion.
Sorry GrannyGravy but we live in awful, disruptive. divisive times.
Beammeupscottie,
I voted leave, you do not know the colour of my skin!!!! I have a "foreign daughter in law" and as such one of my grandchildren has a "foreign" passport.
I have never and will never make assumptions on why people voted they way they did, and find it deeply insulting when unsubstantiated assumptions are made by others.
As for "away with the fairies" just another unsubstantiated slur on people you do not know anything about, not very pleasant.
You know what. I can forgive the unintelligent for voting out, but I can't forgive the well-educated; the well-off; the elderly Tory shire voter.
If I know someone has voted out, I won't have them in my house. They are just Nigel Farage in another guise.
Day6 Double standards there. You can decide what I am thinking but say Well, resort to personal insults if you like Nonnie. So one rule for the person who knows everything and another one for a mere mortal like me. If you hand it out you should expect people to respond.
Brexiteers live in cloud-cuckoo land. They have the British desease of "Nostalgia". Show me one and I'll show you someone who hankers for the golden days of British Empire, when you could get all you need from the small towns shops; where faces were white and you could get away with paying a pittance to your workers. They are away with the fairies.
The UK is the 5th largest economy in the world.
This may be comforting to know for some. But how is our money managed? You would think there would be plenty of evidence of our strong performance.
Homelessness, child poverty, food banks, struggling NHS and schools, police cuts, the just about managing...
I don't think we should give ourselves a pat on the back. I think we should hang our heads in shame.
Well, Day6, like most Remainers, I prefer experience.
I have never posted anything to give you that impression.
But many, many, many other Remainers have forecast a hellish post-EU existance Nonnie - on GN and all over social media, relentlessly. Don't pretend you haven't noticed.
It must be intersting to live as you do, knowing everything, knowing how Brexit will work out, knowing what others are thinking. Don't you find all that responsibility a burden? Or maybe you are on a cloud with the cuckoos?
Nice.
Well, resort to personal insults if you like Nonnie but my forecast bears just as much weight as yours, because as I have said, time and time again, no one can predict the future accurately, in any sphere.
Having read around looking for light in the Brexit gloom over the last two years, I have discovered many economists and academics who are just as hopeful (I said hopeful) for a bright and prosperous future as I am once we leave the EU.
I am just as entitled to my outlook as you are. I prefer hope.
The largest projected growth by 2023 is in China and the USA. No surprises there really.
Registering is free, easy, and means you can join the discussion, watch threads and lots more.
Register now »Already registered? Log in with:
Gransnet »Get our top conversations, latest advice, fantastic competitions, and more, straight to your inbox. Sign up to our daily newsletter here.
