Gransnet forums

News & politics

Anarchy in the UK? When politicians ignore the electorate.

(165 Posts)
Day6 Sun 27-Jan-19 09:59:40

The Gilets Jaunes have been made into heroes in other countries, this is not the case.

I completely agree. When there were riots in this country it was obvious that a lot of opportunist low-life freeloaders were engaged in looting, destruction and vandalism.

I believe in France there are groups wearing red scarves as a protest aimed at the yellow vest protesters.

The point however is that Macron has been described as the 'President of the rich' and seemed oblivious to social problems at street level.

This is just what is happening in the UK. There is a disconnect between the people who govern us and those who give them their power, when many elected politicians decide they know best and are doing everything in their power to stop us leaving the EU. We either believe in democracy or we don't.

Leave means leave, or does it? Politicians it would seem are guided by their own instincts and party's sponsors. Industries with powerful and financially strong lobbies have a significant influence on the politicians' decisions because they are the ones who finance the electoral campaigns. Look at how Corbyn, a life-long Eurosceptic, has had to ditch his anti-EU principles.

If politicians do not represent their constituents and self-interest guides them, there can be no bond of trust. This is a cross party issue. As mentioned in the article, "there is an astonishing degree of contempt" for the people. The results of the 2016 referendum came as a shock, which shook those in the Westminster bubble, but illustrated the rift between the people and the political elite.

Jane10 Sun 27-Jan-19 09:50:13

I can understand why some people are extremely annoyed at the government potentially doing a 'we know best' and overruling the referendum vote. Will all local MPs vote according to how their constituencies voted in the referendum? I know some Labour ones are or are planning to vote to reflect the wishes of their voters.
I was a remainer but now I'm not so sure.

Mamie Sun 27-Jan-19 09:03:31

It astonishes me sodapop that the GJ are seen as heroes, it is so clear now that professional agitators are involved.
Nobody seems to point out that Macron has already got rid of lots of impediments to the success of small businesses and abolished one council tax for all but the top twenty per cent of incomes. How is that favouring the global elite?
There is still a lot wrong with the economy, but France like everywhere else, has to try and solve the complex problems of how to prosper and ensure social justice in a post-industrial society.

Welshwife Sun 27-Jan-19 08:58:46

The ones I see in our area - very few - are now even more decreased in number and are more interested in setting up barbecues on large traffic islands rather than disrupting traffic!

sodapop Sun 27-Jan-19 08:33:03

I agree Mamie The Gilets Jaunes have been made into heroes in other countries, this is not the case. There has been damage done to our local economy and quite unnecessary disruption to lorries trying to deliver their goods. They are still camped out on a roundabout close to our village and holding up the traffic on a daily basis.

mumofmadboys Sun 27-Jan-19 08:19:55

So many firms are planning to leave the country if Brexit happens. There will be so much unemployment. The damage is already done to some degree.

crystaltipps Sun 27-Jan-19 07:51:49

Trouble is leaving the EU won’t magically heal social divisions or give anything more to the have nots. The wealthy will still be ok, the poor will be poorer with fewer jobs and the really important issues like climate change will be ignored by our short termist politicians. It’s the whole political sytem that needs changing not just thinking changing a trading agreement will sort out all our woes.

RosieLeah Sun 27-Jan-19 07:15:05

At last people are starting to wake up to what is really going on! Not just over Brexit but the overall attitude towards the population of this country. Not being able to speak our minds about government policies, trying to persuade our children that they have problems with gender identity, or mental health problems (it is perfectly normal to feel unhappy sometimes). Destroying our countryside and heritage so that business men can make even more money. Those of us who care about this country and its future need to get off our bums and do something. Leaving the EU is the first step, now we need to make it clear that this is OUR country and we don't like where it is heading.

Mamie Sun 27-Jan-19 06:21:42

Well in our part of the world the gilets jaunes protest has shrunk to one bloke standing beside one roundabout with a fire in barrel. Sometimes he is joined by a couple of chums, but they never try to stop anyone or engage in political discourse. They always seem quite cheerful.
They are still causing mayhem with protests in our local city (as in many others), but only on Saturdays. Numbers have not increased, the police are out in force, there is damage to the infrastructure and people can't go shopping. The shopkeepers are suffering.
Most people you talk to are pretty fed up with them and the numbers of cars displaying their gilets on dashboards as a gesture of support is definitely down.
The gilets jaunes don't seem to have any coherent message, argue constantly among themselves and include the far right and the far left. If they do try and stand in the elections it will be very interesting to see if they have any policies.
They are very good at saying what they are against but not what they are for.
They seem to think that attempting to damage the economy will not have consequences.

absent Sun 27-Jan-19 03:48:17

Recent politicians in the UK have been ignoring the electorate – apart from just before elections – since quite a while before Margaret Thatcher's time but she certainly accelerated the process. She ignored the MPs in the Commons, who are the people's representatives and first port of call, and it became far worse under Tony Blair who saw himself as president manqué. Theresa May doesn't seem to want listen to the Commons or, even the Cabinet.

ayse Sun 27-Jan-19 01:57:41

What an interesting article. The political classes are certainly on another planet! Brexit or Remainer, IMO is leading to difficult times with unforeseen consequences.

GabriellaG54 Sat 26-Jan-19 23:28:53

Day6
confused...is this the type of vest you mean?

mumofmadboys Sat 26-Jan-19 22:08:35

I think Brexit will be a total disaster for our country.

petra Sat 26-Jan-19 22:05:55

Day6
I don't believe they have the slightest idea of what they will unleash if this happens.
Our 'rulers' think we have no idea of what is happening in Europe (yellow vest movement) because there is obviously a ban on us seeing it on mainstream media. The idiots don't realise most of us don't get our news from the BBC/ITV/ channel 4.
This movement is now so big that in France they are forming a political party in the hope of putting people in the eu parliament.
A group of intellectuals and historians from 21 countries have put up a letter stating that Europe is facing a challenge not seen since the 1930s.
And why is this? Because 'they' are ignoring the people.
'They' have brought it on themselves.

Day6 Sat 26-Jan-19 21:15:53

To quote the Sex Pistols.

We Brits tend to be a mild mannered bunch, unlike the French, many of whom are now sporting yellow vests and protesting in large numbers regarding Macron's political decisions. He has failed the public, and they don't like it.

Our politicians, not all of them, but many of them, are attempting to thwart democracy in stopping Brexit or finding ways to tie us to Brussels indefinitely. Many represent people who voted - overwhelmingly in their constituencies - to leave the EU, but it does not seem to concern them. and they are doing their utmost to keep us tied to Brussels.

From the article

With the rise of the new political classes, a different political dynamic is emerging.

Drawn from similar backgrounds (often middle-class, university educated, with little prior career experience outside politics itself), members of parliament increasingly sound alike, think alike and act alike

The evolution of a monochrome political establishment is producing a radical disconnect, which the Brexit denouement is throwing into stark relief.

What we appear to be witnessing is the corrupt mutation of the notion of the representation of the people in parliament, into _the substitution of the will of the people by the interests of the political class_

*We're entering the realms, no less, of state capture*"

It makes for very interesting, and disturbing reading, whether you are a Leaver or Remainer.

It's written by Professor David Betz is Professor of War in the Modern World, Department of War Studies, King’s College, University of London

and

Professor Michael Rainsborough is Professor of Strategic Theory, and Head of the Department of War Studies, King’s College, University of London.

Their argument is, "for many years now, governments, along with a significant fraction of the population, have calculated that the bulk of the people can either be kept in a state of apathy or bullied into submission."

Time to don yellow vests in the UK? Or do we roll over and die?

briefingsforbrexit.com/the-british-road-to-dirty-war/