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Anarchy in the UK? When politicians ignore the electorate.

(166 Posts)
Day6 Sat 26-Jan-19 21:15:53

To quote the Sex Pistols.

We Brits tend to be a mild mannered bunch, unlike the French, many of whom are now sporting yellow vests and protesting in large numbers regarding Macron's political decisions. He has failed the public, and they don't like it.

Our politicians, not all of them, but many of them, are attempting to thwart democracy in stopping Brexit or finding ways to tie us to Brussels indefinitely. Many represent people who voted - overwhelmingly in their constituencies - to leave the EU, but it does not seem to concern them. and they are doing their utmost to keep us tied to Brussels.

From the article

With the rise of the new political classes, a different political dynamic is emerging.

Drawn from similar backgrounds (often middle-class, university educated, with little prior career experience outside politics itself), members of parliament increasingly sound alike, think alike and act alike

The evolution of a monochrome political establishment is producing a radical disconnect, which the Brexit denouement is throwing into stark relief.

What we appear to be witnessing is the corrupt mutation of the notion of the representation of the people in parliament, into _the substitution of the will of the people by the interests of the political class_

*We're entering the realms, no less, of state capture*"

It makes for very interesting, and disturbing reading, whether you are a Leaver or Remainer.

It's written by Professor David Betz is Professor of War in the Modern World, Department of War Studies, King’s College, University of London

and

Professor Michael Rainsborough is Professor of Strategic Theory, and Head of the Department of War Studies, King’s College, University of London.

Their argument is, "for many years now, governments, along with a significant fraction of the population, have calculated that the bulk of the people can either be kept in a state of apathy or bullied into submission."

Time to don yellow vests in the UK? Or do we roll over and die?

briefingsforbrexit.com/the-british-road-to-dirty-war/

PECS Mon 28-Jan-19 10:44:12

Glad to be able to spead the info!

Beammeupscottie Mon 28-Jan-19 10:42:37

Thank you PECS. I will join and donate.

PECS Mon 28-Jan-19 10:23:02

or something like this?? www.progressivealliance.org.uk/

Beammeupscottie Mon 28-Jan-19 10:19:57

I am so sick of the two Party System, which is tribalistic and divisive. I just hate how the Upper Classes (followed by the aping M.C's) want to rule all the time and also by those at the other extreme. We need PR and many Parties like our Continental neighbours.

Jane10 Mon 28-Jan-19 08:59:43

I agree Grandad1943. Time to redesign the political system. Proportional representation perhaps?

Grandad1943 Mon 28-Jan-19 08:55:35

One thing has become very clear to both the leave and remain sides in this debate I feel, that being our parliamentary and political system is completely unfit for purpose in a modern and very changed world. Above all else, that needs desperately fixing whatever the outcome of Brexit.

As for social disorder, then if shortages should develop especially in food and medical supplies, then all sides of society may well become involved, no matter if they were leave or remain voters in the referendum.

PECS Mon 28-Jan-19 08:41:01

Some of us, for many years, have been and still are are out physically demonstrating our oppostition or support, doing practical things that endorse our political values, writing letters to influencers, being politically active in a host of ways.
We have several Brexit threads on the go already..nothing new to say.
Join an action group for something that is important to you. Do something!

MaizieD Mon 28-Jan-19 08:26:23

I'm afraid that if those who voted Leave would be cheering in the streets at a No Deal conclusion they would thoroughly deserve to be called 'thick, ignorant, stupid, etc'.

crystaltipps Mon 28-Jan-19 04:12:13

“More than half who voted “ how do you know that? We were promised a great deal by the leave campaign . As stated, not all leave voters had the same reasons for voting. So those leave voters who wanted more money for public services will be disappointed, not cheering in the streets. No deal may mean unrest when the £ collapses, people loose their jobs, austerity shows no sign of ending, food and medicine are in short supply and prices rise. A good number of these voters are no longer with us. 1500 Brexit hate crimes have been reported since 2015, that’s just the reported ones. A good excuse for more Tommy Robinson , now of UKIP, supporters type thuggery. Don’t pretend such folk do not exist. Plenty of those up for a bit of civil disobedience we’ve already seen it. “if we don’t get what we want there’ll be trouble”. Trouble is, what they were promised is not going to be delivered especially by a no deal Brexit. It will mean fewer Eastern European builders and care workers and the like, and that’s what it’s really been all about about, despite leavers’ denials.

Day6 Sun 27-Jan-19 23:47:21

But more than half who voted would be cheering in the streets if No Deal was the outcome of over two years of talks. Civil unrest would come from Remainers then, who wanted a second referendum in order to change the original result?

Given Leavers have been vilified as thick, ignorant, stupid, etc, at every turn, surely the (ahem) educated middle class elite Remainers would not start rooting in the streets but accept the result with dignity and...

Oh, wait a minute....

petra Sun 27-Jan-19 18:20:41

the really big tax evaders pay bugger all
And now we hear that Phillip Hammond can't follow through with his August budget promise to tax online sales because it's against eu rules on fair competition.
In the Retail Gazette. Riveting read grin
I think it's more a case of Jean Claude Juncker getting a call from his friends in Luxembourg telling him to get this stopped. Job done angry

crystaltipps Sun 27-Jan-19 17:57:42

pogs I didn’t ask about leave MPs - I asked what leave supporters such as the OP actually wanted them to do. From the OP Our politicians, not all of them, but many of them, are attempting to thwart democracy in stopping Brexit or finding ways to tie us to Brussels indefinitely so what do you actually want MPs to do? What version of Brexit should they be supporting according to leave supporters? You acknowledge that there is no agreement, so this idea they are trying to “thwart democracy” is flawed, since we don’t know what version of Brexit the majority would support. We are only a few weeks away from B day and we still don’t know whether we are sleepwalking into a crisis or should be stockpiling food and medicines, or everything will be hunky dory. It sounds like a certain section would be happy for martial law to be declared, and others just want to get on with their lives and all this sh*tshow to go away.

POGS Sun 27-Jan-19 17:38:12

crystal tips

" Answering a question with a different question is not answering the question. ".

True but what is the point of asking what Brexit or Remain MP's should do when we all surely to goodness by now realise there is no consensus from either side in Parliament from the 2 main parties..

You asked about Leave MP's only so to balance out your post I asked about Remain MP's and to be honest I did so because asking a question that has no affirmative answer is ruddy useless to be honest!
-----

' So what do Brexit supporters want MPs to do? Support Brexit is not the answer- what version of Brexit?'

I repeat there is. no consensus from Brexit or Leave supporters some will simply say Leave some will simply say Remain. Some will want a 2nd referendum whether you voted Remain or Leave, bla, bla, bla.

This is why this is such a mess , no consensus nor pragmatism everybody tells the other side to drop their ' Red Lines ' whilst holding to their ' Red Lines'.

crystaltipps Sun 27-Jan-19 16:03:55

pogs in answering my question “ what do leave voters want MPs to do. ? ” i.e which version of Brexit should they be supporting- you merely answer with another question about remain MPs. Answering a question with a different question is not answering the question. So what do Brexit supporters want MPs to do? Support Brexit is not the answer- what version of Brexit?
lemon if the only civil unrest is going to be from remainers there is little to worry about. However if all factions are disgruntled then that is more worrying.

TerriBull Sun 27-Jan-19 16:00:29

"The facts show that the latter method has a higher tax return" Referring to keeping tax rates low. Going back to your point POGS, I agree it's counter productive, when Seven Jobs George was Chancellor he thought it would be a good idea to raise Stamp Duty which has resulted in far less receipts for that particular tax and surely one of the factors of the stagnation in the housing market. In the meantime, as we all know, the really big tax evaders pay bugger all in relation to their turnover.

lemongrove Sun 27-Jan-19 15:00:40

I’m British and would never phrase things the way you did
MaizieD so am guessing you are either not British or are but choose to sneer at Britain from where? France? Spain?
Xenophobia has nothing to with it from my standpoint.
To say ‘the Brits disapprove of’ is strange phraseology.

MaizieD Sun 27-Jan-19 14:56:28

I would like to see more Political Parties and PR..

Me too, beammeupscottie. Particularly the PR.

And repeal the Fixed Term Parliaments Act; it's playing havoc with Parliamentary sovereignty.

MaizieD Sun 27-Jan-19 14:52:48

MaizieD you say ‘the Brits disapprove of’.....
Are you not a ‘Brit’ yourself then? This explains a lot.

Playing the xenophobic card now, lemon?

Beammeupscottie Sun 27-Jan-19 14:39:27

Even home! Never forget who labelled the Tories "the nasty party" and she should know!

Jane10 Sun 27-Jan-19 14:37:18

To your previous post not the one re fascists in tory party.

Jane10 Sun 27-Jan-19 14:36:27

I agree beammeupscottie

Beammeupscottie Sun 27-Jan-19 14:35:39

Because the Tory Party is the natural homes of fascists (Ukip was a joke)?

Lazigirl Sun 27-Jan-19 14:32:45

Interesting link varian. Good point he makes "why are we allowing fascists to dictate government policy"? How democratic is that, definitely not taking back control?

Beammeupscottie Sun 27-Jan-19 14:32:43

I think we will get a kind of Brexit. In name to appease the Brexiteers and keeping in the customs union to please remainers. We are a pragmatic nation.
The Tory party needs to lance the likes of JRM who to-day in the Times is referred to as "the boil on the arse of the Tory party". Labour need to ditch Corbyn. Both Parties need reasonable leaders if they want to survive fracture. Although, personally, I would like to see more Political Parties and PR..

varian Sun 27-Jan-19 14:12:09

How Did We End Up Brexiting Just To Stop The Far-Right Rioting, Asks James O'Brien

www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/james-obrien/how-did-we-end-up-brexit-fascist-far-right/