Transactional politics?

the stupid people
tweets made by the idiots

Wish I knew how to send a link

onneker I live in a Remain area too - with a fervent Brexiteer as MP.

There is, however, a difference between how the votes for the referendum were announced and how a parliamentary election is announced.
The referendum was announced by LA area not constituency area.

we don’t actually know how the national vote to Leave the EU broke down at constituency level – and so we don’t know where there might be mismatches between a Leave-voting constituency and a Remain-voting MP (or vice versa).
The above was taken from:
ukandeu.ac.uk/the-eu-referendum-how-did-westminster-constituencies-vote/

"May’s proposals,(i.e. to offer chunks of money to areas to win votes from MP) then, are perfectly justifiable in Keynesian economic terms. The problem she faces is a political one. The Conservatives have used the financial crisis as an excuse to drive down the living standards of workers, whilst driving up asset prices for the wealthy. The austerity agenda remains a central component of this political economic project – and a bridge here and a road there might just critically undermine it. " New Statesman

May’s proposals,(i.e. to offer chunks of money to areas to win votes from MP) then, are perfectly justifiable in Keynesian economic terms.

I think that the New Statesman seems to have lost its moral compass somewhere...

Investing in deprived areas is indeed good Keynesian economics but using it to bribe Opposition MPs to vote for the government is reprehensible.

I do.

I think it makes it clear that the problem is a 'political' one . The longer piece possibly makes it clearer Maizie

123coco Fri 01-Feb-19 14:27:29

How strange that this illiterate post is supposedly by a Remainer who thinks that anyone who voted Leave is stupid.
as a Theology graduate I can tell you she does not live the teaching of Jesus!
A Theology graduate? Really?

I know many who voted Brexit who put together more reasoned arguments - however, I did not agree with them.

It may not be ethical and it is indeed a 'bribe' - but would crashing out with a deal be a better option?

I have never spoken to a remainer who thinks that all leave voters are stupid. I know some who are not.

It is still true, however that, the stupider you are, the more likely it was that you voted leave.

For instance, there were some stupid people who thought that when they voted "leave" it meant that all the foreigners would be sent home and so when, on the day after the referendum, they spotted their local Polish plumber or the owner of their local Indian takeaway in the street they shouted "why are you still here? we voted leave"

There were other stupid people who voted leave because these foreigners didn't vote for us in the Eurovision Song Contest.

There were others who voted leave, like my neighbour who told me that her sister said there were too many Somalis in Bristol .

There were others who believed the Lie on the Bus.

Some actually believed we could be just like Switzerland (a rich country)

Some thought Nigel Farage, holding his pint, was just like a friend you might meet in the pub - a man of the people

There were some who had not got the first clue, but were told by their tabloid paper to vote leave and then the next day, googled "what is the EU?""

Can we not just agree that these folk were probably pretty stupid?

How strange that this illiterate post is supposedly by a Remainer who thinks that anyone who voted Leave is stupid.

I think that she has misread you Jalima; clearly thinks you're a Leaver.

Jalima ….. You seem to be part of the group who want Brexit at any cost just like the stupid people who say ‘ my business comes from the eu but I still want to leave”.
That is what she said to me MaizieD

I admit I am probably in the group now which thinks, oh, just get on with it with the best deal possible.
So perhaps I do have my head in the sand.

But crashing out with no deal at all would be a disaster.

I realise that's what she said, Jalima. I'm just saying that I think she's 'misread' whatever you've been saying on this thread and thinks that you're a Leaver. I agree it was a weird post but that is the bit that struck me the most..

Ah, OK.

I was rather upset.

From today's Guardian:

In an article on Saturday in the Daily Mail, the Labour MP John Mann said he would not apologise for trying to get a better deal for his constituency, admitting that some MPs were seeking to leverage the government’s need for support on Brexit to their advantage.

“If [Theresa May] gives a cast-iron commitment to a national rebuilding programme that’s truly transformative in scale, and will help communities woefully neglected for decades, I will be delighted,” he wrote.

Will that make it easier for more Labour MPs to vote for her Brexit deal? Yes. But that is not bribery, it’s politics.

Someone who has lost their moral compass (if he ever had one)

It is bribery, Mr Mann.

What is more, you're being manipulated and you don't seem able to realise it.

he was going to vote that way anyway, wasn't he?

I doubt that anyone could manipulate Mr Mann.
He obviously wants the best for his constituents.
Would they all felt the same.

Please don't keep on repeating that, Jalima. I've always respected your contributions but your condoning of votes for bribes is making me feel very queasy.

123coco
Not much point in reading your views on the eu as it's obvious that your thinking is muddled.
Stating that Jalima voted to Leave proves this.

I don't condone the offer - what I was trying to say, perhaps clumsily, should he have refused money for his constituency if he was going to vote that way anyway?
Is it pragmatism? Expediency?

If we're looking at bribery in politics and public life where to begin and where would it end?

I did say that perhaps it was time for a new Reform Bill MaizieD

You did, Jalima. But the first Reform Bill was about extending the franchise and rejigging the constituencies, not how MPs should conduct themselves!

We really do need some sort of rigorously enforceable, and enforced, code of conduct for MPs and for political campaigning. It's a very sad state of affairs when a very large number of voters think that all politicians tell lies and that cheating and lawbreaking are fine if you can get away with it.

If MPs and campaigns were overseen by the Advertising Standards Agency I think we'd see a bit of an improvement

...cheating, lawbreaking *and corruption.

The one thing that can be said is that this is public money going to provide some good in a constituency; it may be bribery but it is not going into someone's pocket. Is it illegal? Possibly unethical.

Prising open the government's purse strings is an achievement.

sorry - repeating myself.

sorry - repeating myself.

And I'm feeling even queasier, Jalima.

Sorry that you feel queasy.

Perhaps ask John Mann?
He said it's not bribery - it's politics.
He is seeking a cast iron commitment to investment in deprived communities.
That is what is needed post-Brexit.

More uncertainty will be a disaster for those communities.

Can anybody supply ' Factual Evidence ' Theresa May has offered a bribe?