Warwick University- would you want any dgc of yours to go there?

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6652171/Warwick-University-students-banned-shameful-Facebook-chats-allowed-studies.html

The appeal is based on the length of the ban not on culpability.

There are plenty of private secure chat rooms maryeliza54 , WhatsApp is one many that providing end-to-end encryption of all your messages that cannot be read by third parties, and if want a higher encryption for your conversations, Tap on the encryption field, and you will be presented with a screen that displays a QR code as well as a 60-digit decimal code that represents the contents of that QR code. you construct a private group, all correspondence within that group, cannot be read by anyone outside your group, if the sim card is removed from a phone within your group, everyone within that group is immediately informed that conversations to that person are no longer secure.

I like millions around the world not want my messages harvested, by the likes of Cambridge Analytic/ FB/ Google etc and sold to the highest bidder.

I use face to face encryption 24/7 similar to WhatsApp, and I always use European browsers like qwant where cookies are never used to record my browsing history.

Just because you are paranoid does not mean they are not watching you

grin grin grin

Thanks PECS I wonder what the 'disciplinary measures' are? So hard to know what is really going on in terms of measures taken against them.

I understand all that * KateF.* The point I was making was that if someone in the group wants to screen shot a conversation and share it they can. The same thing happened with some Irish rugby players WhatsApp group

If they’re not banned permanently who cares what other measures are taken against them?

some of the misogynistic, racist, anti semitic attitudes shown by these young men may have been at least condoned in their families of origin. Maybe not, it's easy to blame their parents but these young men are old enough to take responsibility for their own behaviour

Yes, that is a strange one. Where on earth did they pick up such nasty attitudes and lack of respect for women?

One fact remains - to get into Warwick they would have needed seriously good grades at A level. They didn't get in via foundation courses. Warwick is highly rated.

I am not excusing their behaviour in any way, but they would have spent many of their teenage years focusing on their studies, futures, professions, careers etc. I imagine their parents would have had lots of involvement and offered encouragement for them to succeed academically at a high level, even had aspirations for them. It seems incongruous that bright young men hold such repulsive attitudes.

(I am expressing surprise, that's all. I wouldn't imagine their backgrounds to be racist, sexist, anti-semitic, etc, but who knows? They obviously felt okay expressing themselves. I'd like to think their parents would be horrified and ashamed of their sons.)

I'm wondering if their parents had any idea. Just thinking about that 14 year old who committed suicide because of things she had seen on social media, her parents had no idea. I certainly have no experience of some of the things we have been hearing about recently. DS is concerned about the right amount of time for his sons to spend on the iPad and they are very young, what will he do when they are old enough to have phones? It must be very hard.

Day6 why do you think just because they came from homes where they may have been supported to achieve academically they would be less likely to be racist/sexist? Look at the Bullingdon Club.. an appalling set of chaps whose parents paid a fortune to get them to apparently good schools and universities! I have no idea what social-economic or cultural background these young men came from.. any one can be a nasty person or a lovely person!

"any one can be a nasty person or a lovely person!"

I had hoped to express that in my post PECS

I expressed surprise, that's all. Who knows what goes on behind closed doors, or the attitude of their parents? I read a while ago that a suicide bomber was thought of as a lovely, kindly and intelligent man by those who knew him.

Parents who raise their children well often express great sadness when they go off the rails as young adults. I was adding to the conversation, that's all.

I suppose I do not find it "incongruous that bright young men hold such repulsive attitudes."

That was all I was saying too! Intelligence/cleverness or whatever you label it does not guarantee a decent person!

I think it very unlikely that any parents know completely what their grown up children are looking at on the computer and a high percentage don't know what their school age children are watching. The amount of porn, some of it violent, available is shocking and some of the games available specialise in murder and rape. I suspect that this is desensitising many young men and that it will continue to do so, unless some research is undertaken, evidence collected and action follows.

I am expressing surprise, that's all. I wouldn't imagine their backgrounds to be racist, sexist, anti-semitic, etc, but who knows?

You must have missed this bit of my above post PECS.

Either that or you want to nit-pick for some reason. <sigh>

It's like entering a bear pit sometimes, to muse online.

" . . it will continue to do so, unless some research is undertaken, evidence collected and action follows." which is why I don't think it is ideal to just ban these young men as a punishment and fail to undertake research and collect evidence into what led them to be so insensitive, following it with constructive action. Understanding why and how leads to being able to try to prevent it being repeated, by them or by others. If you don't even try to understand what led to it, how can you stop it happening again?

That is NOT saying that they should receive no sanctions ot retribution (MaryEliza seems to think that is what I and others are advocating)

Elegran I so agree. It confounds me that so many people think chuck these men out and everything will be alright. Unfortunately I don't think it will. I suspect some of what was posted did not come from the imaginations of these men but was adaptations of things they had seen on line, that others have exactly the same or similar fantasies but are hiding them better, and that some of them at some time will put their fantasies into action.

Now it is known who they are will they really want to go back to Warwick anyway?

trisher I haven't seen a single post suggesting "so many people think chuck these men out and everything will be alright".
Research into the impact of regular exposure to pornogrophy is already on going. I expect non of us will be surprised at the finding that it distorts the views of boys and girls in early adolescence as to what constitutes a consensual sexual relationship. It suggests that sexual practices many of us wouldn't be willing to participate in are quite 'normal' , pleasant and not painful. There has been quite a bit of focus in media reports on the number of young men who find themselves impotent as a result of porn addiction.
Young women and early teenage girls report complying with sexual demands they find painful or distasteful because it's just expected of them.

Iam64 thanks for the information.
I suggest you read me54's post at 16.39 today and the posts on page 5. I am not talking only about posts on GN but general statements from the wider public.

But some people on here concentrate on "chuck them out" and regard mention of all other research/treatment as being tolerant of their "laddishness."

Day6 You can think it nit picking but it is how I read your post.
It did sound to me that you were saying that it was unlikely parents, who supported children to get to university, were less likely to raise children who might behave in the way the young men did. I am not blaming parents, I am not asking for the students to be hug drawn and quartered just banned from Warwick to demonstrate clearly that their thinking was clearly unacceptable.

Elegran if there are programmes/therapies that may help these young men develop an acceptable attitude to women & to appreciate the damage they have done etc. then I am not opposing that they should have to undergo 'treatment'. I guess it was not in the University policy / sanctions for dealing with misconduct. They probably never imagined such a scenario.

Sorry cut and paste error in my post.
Should read as follows:
It did sound to me that you were saying that parents, who supported children to get to university, were less likely to raise children who might behave in the way the young men did.

I just wish people would think more about the girls involved.

They have been vilely abused by these young men and then abused further by the line of questioning followed by the university authorities. They seem to have had no one to support them at University level and then even all we do is argue about the punishment of the young men involved.

It is known who these men are and I think it is outrageous that these men should be back on caampus when any of these women are still at the university and where their known presence in any class or seminar must be deeply disturbing for other women on the campus.

Yes indeed Monica and as the grandmother of a young woman on that very campus, it is very worrying indeed.

I think many universities are failing badly in their pastoral care.

I imagine that tutors at Warwick will be unhappy to learn that this has happened too.

The subject has explored at length in this thread, so I would just add something about staying safe. Anyone with children or grandchildren, male or female, at any university or away from home, would be wise to make them aware of this story. Only when they see such evidence will they appreciate our fears, and that they must be proactive about keeping themselves safe.

In my days at uni we wouldn't have shared a flat with men, but that happens a lot nowadays. I have had female students complain to me about unwanted attention from male students. Many unis have 24hour study areas and this may mean students walking back to their rooms in the early hours alone. They would be wise always to walk in groups of friends.

Warwick campus, is probably as safe as any other campus. However, most campuses are open and landscaped with pathways through gardens and wooded areas where it is safe in the day time, but extra caution should be taken at night.

Has anyone who has commented on this thread been raped, or threatened with rape? I ask because the intellectualising of this issue is overtaking the baseline, which is a group of men discussing the rape of others. One cannot underestimate the impact this has.
To me it’s quite simple. These young men should not be allowed back on campus until the women involved have finished their studies, and have undertaken a substantial course to address their actions.