Warwick University- would you want any dgc of yours to go there?

Yes MissA I think we all would and would keep questioning ourselves about what we could have done differently. I think parents start to lose some of their influence about the time children go to secondary school.

The VC has said the ‘men’ are not returning ( but it’s their decision) I hope that the whole mishandling of this is still investigated and necessary changes made. I hope other universities take note. Still not a word of remorse from them I note. As a btw when I was just reading newspaper reports now of this, they all quoted some of the posts but the much ‘tamer’ ones. This gave a really misleading message - if they were going to quote, they should have used my examples or said that they couldn’t quote because what was written wasn’t fit for a newspaper. Just a thought about how we are misled deliberately or otherwise by the media and that what we are not told can be as important or more so than what we are

Nonnie I agree. A parent can do everything to try and bring their child up with values, but at the end of the day it relies on the well brought up child having the inner strength to resist the urge to fit in with their peers, go along with their jokes, know when the joke has gone too far and put the brakes on. And the courage to resist in this way I believe is largely part of your innate constitution. And then you get the badly brought up ones too, of course, but I suspect it's the parents who really did care and really did try their best who feel the most shame, because they are the responsibility-takers.

Yes Ready I don't know about others but I always feel responsible even for things I have no control over. When I hear that young people have done bad or stupid things I would not blame the parents unless I knew them. We none of us know everything our children are doing so can never feel smug.

Well let’s just hope these ‘men’ have been left in no doubt about their parents feel now about their behaviour. If any of them had been my ds , they wouldn’t have been back under my roof until they’d publicly apologised to the women concerned ( and actually wouldn’t have been back because of the very fact they’d appealed and thought it was acceptable to go back because on campus)

Delete because obvs

One of the reasons I would like to see more research into these young men is that I would like to see if there is a possible link between these men's attitude, on-line porn and the growing successes of girls and women. There are probably more young men less successful and less observed than these who are also carrying such attitudes. These young men would once have been the "top dogs" as far as careers were concerned, now women have taken over, it isn't impossible that some resentment is involved and more primitive urges have come into operation.
I am not by the way saying it is wrong that women are more powerful or even that they have yet reached full equality, just suggesting that it might be wiser to look more closely at things and if necessary develop ways of helping young men adjust, and deal with what might be very primitive feelings. Rather than dismissing them as awful men.

trisher what they did was 'awful' but I agree that simply 'dismissing' them or giving up on them is wrong.

Here we go again - I’ve said all I want to on this thread - I’ll leave some of you to organise a crowd funder page for research into their ‘issues’. Whilst you’re at it, you might look at the state of funding of CAMHS in your area.

But one last word ‘ women have taken over’.???????.

Young men are not the only ones with issues.

Old women have them too.

maryeliza54 why are you so determined to dismiss any men's issues? Do you think it somehow ,makes you a better feminist? As for CAMHS what do you expect from a government that makes all the right noises but cuts funding to education all the time?
And by the way the suicide rates for young men are much higher than those of women so arguably that lack of funding reflects most on them.But I don't expect you to agree.

I think it is absolutely appalling what these young men did. The women who were the subject of their vile - and violent - comments must have felt so belittled and betrayed because they had thought of these people as friends and equals.

I'm not sure what the answer is. I tend to think they should have been asked to leave but I sort of agree with trisher that that doesn't really address the overall troubling issue of the violent thought and language directed at women, which appears to be quite common in all areas of public life. Rather than just targetting the individuals who get caught expressing these thoughts, perhaps women and men should spend more time discussing these issues

With regard to the significantly higher number of male suicides, I think it is fair to suggest that uncontrollable anger and a wish to punish, rather than sadness and depression, is sometimes the precursor to suicide. Although not unknown, it is very rare for women to murder their partners and children because of a loss of control over the partner/family and then commit suicide themselves, whereas it is a more commonplace occurrence with men.

It seems the men concerned have decided not to return to Warwick. A wise decision.

Eloethan I think it is fair to suggest that uncontrollable anger and a wish to punish, rather than sadness and depression, is sometimes the precursor to suicide.

Sometimes perhaps but according to the policeman I had a lengthy discussion about this with it is not something he had come across. He said that depression is the main reason, being cut off from children often the cause of the depression, being controlled by a bullying partner and generally feeling helpless. Imo committing suicide is unlikely to be thought of as punishing people and is outdated along with the opinion that suicide is selfish.

I don't think Eloethan meant that punishment was a factor in suicide, but that perhaps someone had already gone through a phase of blaming others (even subconsciously) for their misery and talking or acting in a punitive way, before they reached the point of wanting to end it all.

Nonnie - your policeman friend was expressing his personal view. His views I suspect are just that and influenced by his personal life beliefs, rather than any well researched conclusions.
I hope he's equally sympathetic to women victims of domestic abuse when he's responding to their 999 calls.

Iam he is not a friend, he was responding to a 999 call where a woman was abusing a man. Yes, he was influenced by personal experience, as we all are, his brother committed suicide because of an abusive woman.

It is fairly likely that his views were influenced by this event then, rather than being relatively objective.

I'm fairly sure the incidence of women being hospitalised as a result of domestic abuse is far higher than the numbers of men. Having worked for a couple of years at provincial solicitors who dealt with all sorts of issues, I remember clearly some quite horrific cases of women suffering severe injuries at the hands of their male partners. According to a Guardian article in December 2017, every three days a woman is killed by her male partner. The implication - often put forward by men - that within the domestic setting (or indeed any other setting) women are equally as violent and dangerous as men is just not borne out by the figures.

Eloethan as I said we are all influenced by our experiences and I think a policeman is likely to have more relevant experience than anyone else, even someone working for a provincial solicitor.

I don't understand how anyone can produce statistics about domestic violence or coercive control, they can only be a guess. I think it is generally acknowledged these days that men are far less likely to report abuse than women and I have not yet heard of a man falsely reporting abuse but I have heard of women doing so. I have never heard anyone suggesting that domestic violence is equal, please show me where it is 'often put forward by men'

Nonnie, I have almost 40 years experience of working closely with the Police in relation to domestic abuse. I do understand how statistics about domestic abuse can be established. The fact that men may be less likely to report abuse than women may be so but it doesn't alter the fact that every three days a woman is murdered by her male partner.

You may not have heard of men falsely reporting abuse but trust me, it happens.
I do not understand your determination to hold on to the notion that women pose this huge risk to men whilst minimising the very real risk that men pose to women (and children).

I have just watched Behind Closed Doors: Through the Eyes of a Child. It gave a very good insight into the terror that some women - and their children - experience, due to domestic abuse. The figures at the beginning of the programme demonstrated that domestic violence is far from rare and many women and their children live in constant fear.

I thought the UK had something called ASBOs? Is that appropriate here?

Eloethan please show me where you got that slur from I do not understand your determination to hold on to the notion that women "pose this huge risk to men whilst minimising the very real risk that men pose to women (and children). I have never said that and I have evidence that some women do. Saying that men are also victims clearly does not imply them women are not. Why do you think it does?

Bradford I don't think ASBOS apply because the police say no crime has been committed.