Warwick University- would you want any dgc of yours to go there?

Can anyone give me one good reason why it’s acceptable to allow them to return? They can pursue their studies elsewhere - they would not be deprived of an education. And there is nothing stopping them from publicly apologising and saying they will fu d a way to re-educate themselves ( whatever that might mean). Their silence speaks volumes

Totally agree with your last sentence maryeliza54

MOnica yes, they probably are a product of their backgrounds, very sad. I most certainly saw my home life very differently when I left home and I think that was when I really grew up. Do we know if they were first years or had they been there longer? There is so much we don't know but I feel we should condemn what they did but not them for the rest of their lives. Prisoners get rehabilitation, I think they should get the same sort of help.

They haven’t broken the law( apparently)
Really?

They certainly need help, but, if they are under 25 - and I think they are, this means they were born between 1995 - 2000, that any boy should be brought up in a home in the years since then and have the attitudes they have and carry on the conversations they had is too far over any boundary to be regarded lightly.

No, they shouldn't be punished for ever but neither should they be allowed back into Warwick University, where the women that were the victims of their conversations are still studying and face the fear of seeing them again, not just on a day to day basis around campus but in lectures and seminars as well.

I am very wary of using arguments of sexism. Too many women do this to claim advantage, but in this case I do think it is the classic attitude to the culprits of 'boys will be boys' and that their female victims should just live with it.

Jalima it sounds rather like a hate crime to me but if not I am left wondering if the reporting is accurate.

It would have been much easier if they had been charged with something and given a short sharp shock which would have made them grow up.

I remember a teenager, a long time ago, who was caught shoplifting. She was taken back to the shop by her mother and only then realised how wrong she was. She grew into a very nice law abiding adult. Many young people try drugs and alcohol and don't become addicts possibly because they learn how stupid it is. No one is condoning what they did I just hope they have learnt from the experience and, hopefully, other people who might not have understood how awful such behaviour is will have got the message too. I suspect it is being discussed in universities everywhere.

How do you know what their backgrounds are? I have tried to find any detail of that online, but can't. I have seen photographs of them smartly dressed, but that could have been for an occasion, not their "normal" clothes.

Being at University is no guide to their background - their parents could be rich or poor, they could be strictly or permissively brought up, could have gone to a single-sex school or a mixed one, if a single-sex school it could have been a strict and spartan religious one where sexuality was taboo or a privileged public school where - well, heaven knows what goes on there!

Has there been any report of their backgrounds?

It would have been much easier if they had been charged with something and given a short sharp shock which would have made them grow up.
I agree, Nonnie .
There may well be one instigator, ringleader, and others who are sheep and a short, sharp shock could well make them think twice. However, perhaps the police should be finding the instigator and dealing with him more severely, if that is what happened.

DH has been looking into more of this. There are some shocking things written in defence of the men concerned.
Claiming: that British way of life is being diluted by PC rules / it was a private conversation/ it was just banter / ruining lives of 11 young men because of a 'joke'. Sounded like the rhetoric of the Liberal Right. I did not know it was traditionally British to regard talk of raping young women friends as light hearted banter!

Regardless of their background what they did and said, discussing raping girls naming the ones they wanted to rape, discussing raping them in the street. Even if these were just sexual fantasies are so far over any boundary of what is acceptable on social media that exclusion should be the only penalty.

This link, an interview with one of the students named in the interviews tells you explicitly what was being said and what the victims had to go through www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-47074583/i-was-sick-when-i-heard-warwick-rape-chat-students-returning

I am horrified how GN members on this thread are finding excuses for the lenient treatment of the men involved and giving no thought to what their victims are going through

I find this shocking and calling it banter, a joke is just adding fuel to the fire.

The University obviously condones this type of behaviour, or at least thinks that it should be more or less ignored.

I hope these boors get their just desserts.

DH, equally shocked at this reinstatement, was looking the case up on the Uni website & has noticed that he used to teach one of the professors of sociology. DH has messaged him to express his views. I cannot imagine how anyone would want to begin to justify such a conversation anywhere ..but especially on social media!

It's a horrible university. I used to work there and I was bullied (by a female boss). When I tried to raise the issue with HR (I wasn't reporting it officially, I just wanted a bit of support) I was made to feel worse and that it was somehow my fault. I left soon after but it's left me with a very sour taste.

Nonnie saying they shouldn’t be allowed back to Warwick isn’t condemming them for the rest of their lives, it’s saying they shouldn’t be allowed back because what they did is completely unacceptable and no woman should have to face them on campus - nor any decent man for that matter.I don’t care if they were 1st years or not - when I hear them publicly apologise and say they will transfer elsewhere I might, just might, think there is a glimmer of hope for them but their intention to return says all you need to know about them.

Jalima excuses excuses - for goodness sake - sheep? Oh well that’s all right then - a big boy did it and ran away.

PECS ? to your DH.

If lads at your DDs or DGDs school had posted that you would expect exclusion. It is shocking.. equally awful though that the response by some has been supportive of their "right" to discuss raping girls an naming the girls!

I agree, Maryeliza. I would feel that sufficient punishment had been handed out to these men if, instead of asking to be reinstated, they felt too ashamed of their behaviour to show face in the university again. Then I would feel there is some hope of rehabilitation. Otherwise, they are sticking two fingers up to decent behaviour.

Read my other posts maryeliza - please

It is often one who thinks it may be a good idea and the rest are too stupid to say 'No, this is not right' and walk away and report.
Sheep

Actually, you're right, sheep are not that stupid.

The uni has issued another (very long) statement in the last hour or so. You can read it on the uni Twitter page. The first paragraph (again very long) seems to be about how bad it made the Professor who wrote the piece feel

They are all autonomous individuals who participated in two ongoing FB ‘chats’and chose to do so. In fact if they are sheep which I doubt that makes them even more dangerous as this means they would follow whatever their leader said - maybe next time the leader might say let’s actually rape them and being sheep, they would. Some of the original 11 involved in the ‘chat’ did actually protest and disengage. The ones who didn’t present a real and continuing danger to women whether as followers or leaders.

Yes katy the VC’s statement is unbelievable -I nearly cried at how upset it had made him feel. He didn’t address the issue of the head of PR or whatever being appointed investigation officer. MN have posted copies of letters from ademic departments at Warwick expressing their dismay.

But if excluding them for a fixed term hasn't taught them a lesson maryeliza54 (and it obviously hasn't Or they wouldn't have appealed). If they cannot be re-educated (and I believe they can) what should we do with them? There is no evidence to suggest that they would find not being allowed to return to Warwick any more improving than the fixed term exclusion, so banning them completely would just move the threat to another university.

Well the other universities can just say NO

The first paragraph (again very long) seems to be about how bad it made the Professor who wrote the piece feel
Oh dear, poor thing, he/she must be traumatised!

If they are not shown the error of their ways and allowed to get away with this then goodness knows what they will become.

They could continue their degrees in prison, I suppose, trisher.

So how come an old man, not a student, who sent such messages to a local newsreader, has got two and a half years imprisonment but these young men get a little slap on the wrist?
Was it because he actually sent the messages and didn't just post them online?

I don't understand.