The cliff edges nearer because May doesn’t want to split party!

...and every morning when you put on a pair of M&S knickers, remember, that in a sweat shop in Sri Lanka or Taiwan, some downtrodden employee is working all the hours heaven sends, for peanuts.
That is what jura2 would have us believe. It's tat. Even M&S tat.

We need more exports, not mor imports. Neither the EU nor the UK is likely to make a trade deal with protectionist China any time soon. And Germany exports five times as much as we do to China, so it’s unlikely that being in the EU is stopping us. Face facts.

When you say "we" don't look at the labels do you really mean "many/some people don't look at the labels"

That's only Trump. How much of our merchandise is bought from America? Almost zero.
We can negotiate on our own terms with China and those countries not wedded to or inside the EU.
More countries will follow when we leave, mark my words.

Gabriella- what I was trying to say is that currently EU rules ensure that wherever goods are made, or produce/meat produced- they have to follow EU regulations and standards, re safety, chemicals, pollutants, etc, etc.

Which is not at all guaranteed after Brexit. Especially if we have to go with begging bowl to these countries for trade agreements. Trump has made that very clear. He wants us to drop our EU based requirements on animal welfare, pollutants and chemicals in produce we buy, be they meat, cereal or other- give up working rights re wages, conditions, hours, holidays, maternity, etc, etc.

jura2

Re Boden.
Please see screenshot.

Urmstongran. 'Great news just though this morning though about a post Brexit relationship with Switzerland. That should please and reassure jura2'

Thanks - I have talked about this agreement on another thread. Sadly, it has not been ratified and signed, and the right in the shape of the SDP/UDC party- are doing everything they can to stop it. So we are defo not out of the woods yet. I wish...

And as an aside, Luckygirl - yes I do (iron sheet). Nothing better than good quality cotton sheets freshly ironed- a real luxury x

jura2
Yes, there is a lot of tat I agree but so often, when we buy things, we don't look at the labels to see where they're made.
Much of our clothing, from both ends of the market, is made in Taiwan, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh and China and many items such as lampshades and bases, some furniture, mirrors, plant-pots electrical goods etc...are made in China too.
I wonder where Boden, beloved clothier of GNers, have their clothes manufactured.

Labaik Ethel seems to think she does . Whatever happens i will still have a mortgage still have my job and my lovely family.

I think there are some civil servants who think their jobs are safe, whoever agreed the cladding at Grenfell Tower appears not to have lost their job, or if they have I haven't hear it. Then there is whoever gave the freight contract to Seabourne without doing due diligence. If their jobs are secure I imagine the jobs of the ones who have negotiated with the EU civil servants are also secure.

I do not pretend to fully understand all the details of leaving the EU.
What I do know is that it was a bloody stupid idea not to have thrashed all this out at home & cross-party BEFORE deciding to trigger Article 50. UK could then have gone to the negotiating table with some confidence and credibility!
Too important a decision, which will impact on us all and for future generations, without having any clear idea what a) we all really wanted & b) what we could realistically expect.
It is a national matter not party politics. Idiots!

Gabriella - you should have said 50% of the poor quality goods come from China. Often on slave Labour.

Currently, EU rules limit the dangers represented by those goods- be they safety of use, materials, chemicals and pollution. Once these checks are gone - what will happen. Same for meat from USA or elsewhere, and all sorts of produce.

fullfact.org/europe/how-eu-works-what-customs-union/?gclid=Cj0KCQiA14TjBRD_ARIsAOCmO9Zb8LMZu62Yv6b0uQTHpPs_4A1lFxswVaJ4gVGXyRuz1ByJk8RYRhIaAkfDEALw_wcB

For anyone as as I am about the various terminology this is quite useful!

Out means out. Not cutting the umbilical cord would be folly.
Much more than 50% of our goods come from China.
Just look at the labels or 'Made in ***' stickers on all the items in your home, the boxes they came in.
Does anyone really think that China will pass up that export market?
I imported a bed from the USA. It's a huge mahogany affair. The sticker says Made in China.

Anja
There is no need to resort to bad language, unless you have a very stunted vocabulary.

counterpoint is absolutely right.

How do we know that the countries we want to do trade deals with even want the products we produce? As for the USA, Trump has made it clear that it's America first

Brexit will lead to less manufacturing here as well.

4allweknow - we are a Parliamentary democracy so MPs get to decide what happens at the end of the day. We don't run our Government by referendum.

No-one knows why people who voted the way that they did in the 2016 referendum so how do the Leavers and the Government know something the rest of us don't?

Theresa May is simply playing for time. She's got to rule out a No Deal to prove she is acting in good faith rather than blackmailing MPs who don't like her deal to vote for it.

Why won't she rule out a No Deal and give business some confidence that she cares about the future of the UK economy?

Nonnie; I don't think any job is secure these days. Although, from the way the defence secretary is speaking there might be a lot of jobs going in the armed forces as he seems to think we will become a world power militarily after Brexit...why, even as I speak we've sent our aircraft carrier out to sort out any problems in the Pacific....

Making our own trade deals is just another unicorn. Why do we want to? There aren’t many significant countries that we could deal with that don’t already have deals with the EU. And it is being made starkly clear by the Japanese that they expect to give us a worse deal than the EU. Hardly surprising, we have less clout than the largest trading bloc in the world.

My view, for what it's worth is that all MPs regardless of party are trying to impose their will on the country. Those who wanted to remain are causing just as many problems as those who wanted to leave. There is no consensus from any party on any proposals offered, it's all what individual MPs want. Very little actual consideration to the referendum result.

I'm not sure it makes much difference whether TM & JC reach an agreement when the EU have said there won't be any negotiations. I suppose if it were a radical change they might consider it but then what about all those who don't want a customs union, surely they will frustrate it?

It makes me sad when people bury their heads in the sand. It is all very well if you are in a position to pay more for everything or in a secure job but what about all those less fortunate? Don't they matter? Some of us care passionately and this is such an important issue I wish more would take it seriously. Its not about winning or losing, its about having an open mind and listening to those with different opinions. To simply say 'I voted Leave/Remain and I'm sticking to it' is a matter of pride and we all know what that goes before.

You IRON sheets????!!!!!

Fascinating collection of posts this morning.

I'm still waiting to see what it is the UK will offer to trade with to Japan, China, India, Brazil, Argentina, Turkey, Russia, the USA, etc.

Off to Iceland now - to see if I can knock up a deal on frozen carrots

I like your SOH Anja it makes me like you better - even though we disagree on our politics!

I’ll return to this later. In the meantime I need to sort out the free movement of bedclothes from the washing machine to the clothes line and via the ironing board back to the beds.

Not free movement with customs union its the single market is a broader agreement that encompasses the free movement of goods, services, capital and people.

Wonder if most realise this and would it make a difference?

Who on earth trusts the bluddy polls any more varian? They got it so wrong over the referendum!