Younger people’s views beyond March 2019.

Absolutely right MOnica on all accounts.... many 16 year olds have not had life experience, and, in the case of Brexit, have never known a life outside the EU either, so how can they have a balanced view?.... I would never have seen myself as having enough knowledge to vote... on anything... at the age of 16.. most of us were in our own little bubble, and halfway between child and adult... I know there are some very "switched on" youngsters, but the majority are just normal teenagers, who worry about everyday stuff and not the ways of the world, which is just as it should be at that age.. they grow up too quickly sometimes.

Well said minxie ?

minxie who do you think doesn't understand that? Can you not understand that the vote was electoral fraud? Do you not understand that we were lied to and that most of those promises were and still are undeliverable? Now that pretty much everyone can understand that the only democratic thing to do is to allow the people to vote on facts not fiction. Anything else is abusing democracy.

It is naive to simply believe everything you were told and not then accept it was false.

I think the voting age should stay at 18 for the moment but all young people have a financial stake in the future, including 16 year olds, because a government can last 5 years and they'll reach the current voting age halfway through.

I remember hearing an older person during the 2016 referendum campaign saying he rented a flat and lived on his own with a dog and that he didn't care whether we stayed in the EU or not as it would make no difference to him.

Decisions made by the Government impact on us all in one way or another regardless of whether we are at school, in further education, working or retired. For example, the last few years of austerity has affected everyone, unless they are very rich. Some people are looking forward to voting for a Government that will bring it to an end.

At 16 there is hardly enough life experience to be able to judge wisely on something as important as political decisions, No matter how strong your opinions are on a particular subject, at that age the background issues and consequences that could occur are less obvious than to those that have seen them happen during the course of their longer lifetimes. Today's young people haven't lived outside the European Union as we older people have. We were trading with the world then and we will do so again. Today, the doctrine is that the world only consists of Europe. The world is getting smaller, but it's larger than Europe.

I totally agree with you Monica. Unfortunately with the onset of social media children are accessing many things that we had no access to when we were younger. This doesn't mean that they are experienced, it means that they have read some thing not experienced it. Yes we all get some of our knowledge through tge media, but we have also LIVED through many things. I was not born during ww2 but lived through the Falklands and subsequent wars so am aware of the impact this has on the country (and me personally having brothers in the navy). I was young but remember the 3 day week and regular power cuts. I don't mean to appear patronising but teenagers are encouraged to stay in education to a minimum of 18, some going on (and on and on) with university. This is NOT the real world.

Nonnie we were lied to by both sides. It depends on our own perspective as to whose version we choose to believe...

Well said, minxie, the majority voted ‘out’ and that’s what we should do. The fact that many people were too young to vote is always the way for any democratic election.

Got mixed feelings about this. On the one hand some people take the view that the girl trying to return from Syria was only 15/16 when she went and was only a child, so she didn't really known what she was doing and easily influenced at that age. Yet, on the other hand, some say our young people are well informed, have the knowledge and know their own minds and so should be able to vote at 16. We can't have it both ways. Personally I think 18 is fine. I do agree that 16 year olds today know much more than most of us our age group did at 16. But I dont think being at school and living with parents gives enough 'real life' experience. And two years can make quite a difference.

I get a bit fed up of that expression “the people’s vote”. Who do they think voted in the referendum, a bunch of robots? Lies were told on both sides remainers and leavers. I had made my mind up which way to vote before any of the propaganda had appeared. We’re we really that influenced by these politicians as we know they all lie through their teeth?

The question is should 16 year old be able to vote full stop.

16 and 17 year olds were given the right to vote in the Scottish referendum by MSPs; was that just for the referendum or have they been given the franchise? At the same time that age group over the whole of the UK were told they could not vote - was that just for the EU referendum or for any election?

There has to be some consistency - the rules can't be changed just because a different outcome is hoped for.

I also agree with Minxie - it's what you call democracy!

A 'people's vote' is just another name for re-running the referendum, preferred by those who voted to remain in the EU.

Regarding 16 year olds voting, because it will effect them more than our generation. What about 14 year olds and younger, it will effect them all the more.

The referendum is over, now it is time to leave the EU on the best terms possible, and all the whingers help rather than hinder the negotiations to help us do so.

As far as the referendum goes I think we need a second vote and 16 year olds should be allowed to vote. It is their generation that will be affected by the outcome and in my opinion it is wrong for us to take such a monumental decision without their opinion’s considered. If I was to be really outrageous I’d suggest the vote would be restricted to 16 _ 65 year olds only! ...... before you rage, I am over 65.

Many 16 year olds are totally disinterested in politics and are lacking in any kind of useful life experience. Many 65 year olds are totally disinterested in politics and had/still have no actual idea of what being in the EU means.
Maybe there should be a test before anyone can vote on any issue!
For example. Before you vote on Brexit, you answer 10 questions about the pros and cons of remaining or leaving.
The problem would be, who would mark the tests, as there doesn’t appear to be anyone in the country who has any actual answers.
There are so many people arguing, but I’ve yet to read about an actual alternative plan.
The EU membership has existed for such a long time that there are numerous long and far reaching threads that need untangling. Along the way, numerous people must be affected in many ways.
What is Jeremy Corbyn’s plan? Does anyone have one?

Sixteen year olds should vote in a further referendum because they’ll be more affected. Well five year olds will be even more affected, perhaps we should give them a vote.

I believe we need a 2nd vote, a vote based on facts and what has been achieved so far in negotiations and 16 year olds should take part. It is their future not ours. They may not be able or confident enough to travel by train on their own but they are pretty clued up with whats going on in the world. Why are leavers so against a second vote, are they afraid of losing.

I very rarely comment but this thread has roused me from my apathy. I have a feeling it may turn into a rant. Of course we should not give the vote to 16 year olds, nor hold a second referendum. There's no logic to either of these proposals. Does it mean that we should have a third referendum in a couple of years time when the current fourteen year olds are 16? I think that the school "strike" shows that a lot of young people are not able to think clearly, rather than the opposite. I would have been more impressed if they had given up part of their weekend, rather than missing school on a nice little trip with their friends. And they show no logic, chanting "Oh Jeremy Corbyn" who wants to bring back the use of coal, and f... Theresa May whose government (love them or loath them) has got the greenest targets of almost all other countries. I can see that paddyann thinks that the teenagers north of the border are all politically aware (good for her, being patriotic. Although it begs the question why so many Scots live in England) but I haven't found it amongst my (very intelligent) grandchildren or their friends. Also I'm a bit fed up with being made to feel guilty by these youngsters. Do they realise that our generation grew up in a time when we usually didn't even fly until we were adults, we took our shopping bags to the shops and certainly walked or caught the bus to school. My parents didn't have a car until I was a teenager and my dad still biked to work. Even now I walk or bus most places while I can. I wonder if the demonstrators would be willing to give up their mobile phones, computers, flights to their holidays, lifts to schools.....I could go on but I'd better not.
As to being lied to .....both sides put out incorrect information. The government pamphlet was a total "project fear" document. It is a shame that our government has made such a mess of leaving the EU but I think we should all pause a minute and have a proper look at the organisation and how it is run. It is expensive, unaccountable, undemocratic and, despite the principle of each country having an equal voice, the big ones just bully the small ones and alter the rules as the go along. I am now going to hide behind the sofa!!!!

Nonnie, as has been said, lies were told on both sides but are you aware of the Lisbon Treaty? If we stayed in the EU we would have to accept the euro and the following:

.“What will actually happen if we stay in the EU” is a question no remainer will ever answer but here it is warts and all.

1: The UK along with all existing members of the EU lose their abstention veto in 2020 as laid down in the Lisbon Treaty when the system changes to that of majority acceptance with no abstentions or veto’s being allowed.
2: All member nations will become states of the new federal nation of the EU by 2022 as clearly laid out in the Lisbon treaty with no exceptions or veto’s.
3: All member states must adopt the Euro by 2022 and any new member state must do so within 2 years of joining the EU as laid down in the Lisbon treaty.
4: The London stock exchange will move to Frankfurt in 2020 and be integrated into the EU stock exchange resulting in a loss of 200,000 plus jobs in the UK because of the relocation. (This has already been pre-agreed and is only on a holding pattern due to the Brexit negotiations, which if Brexit does happen, the move is fully cancelled - but if not and the UK remains a member it’s full steam ahead for the move.)
5: The EU Parliament and ECJ become supreme over all legislative bodies of the UK.
6: The UK will adopt 100% of whatever the EU Parliament and ECJ lays down without any means of abstention or veto, negating the need for the UK to have the Lords or even the Commons as we know it today.
7: The UK will NOT be able to make its own trade deals.
8: The UK will NOT be able to set its own trade tariffs.
9 The UK will NOT be able to set its own trade quotas.
10: The UK loses control of its fishing rights
11: The UK loses control of its oil and gas rights
12: The UK loses control of its borders and enters the Schengen region by 2022 - as clearly laid down in the Lisbon treaty
13: The UK loses control of its planning legislation
14: The UK loses control of its armed forces including its nuclear deterrent
15: The UK loses full control of its taxation policy
16: The UK loses the ability to create its own laws and to implement them
17: The UK loses its standing in the Commonwealths
18: The UK loses control of any provinces or affiliated nations e.g.: Falklands, Cayman Islands, Gibraltar etc
19: The UK loses control of its judicial system
20: The UK loses control of its international policy
21: The UK loses full control of its national policy
22: The UK loses its right to call itself a nation in its own right.
23: The UK loses control of its space exploration program
24: The UK loses control of its Aviation and Sea lane jurisdiction
25: The UK loses its rebate in 2020 as laid down in the Lisbon treaty
26: The UK’s contribution to the EU is set to increase by an average of 1.2bn pa and by 2.3bn pa by 2020

I thoroughly support young people taking the day off school to demonstrate on the issue of climate change - they've seen what a complete mess can be made of their futures and want a stake in it. As for the idea that they are at school to learn, forgive me if I believe that political education and participation is as important as one day spent doing 35 mins each of Maths, English, General Science and IT interspersed with library periods because teachers are off sick and can't be covered because of insufficient resources allocated to education. As for the idea that everyone in the world is doing their best to plan for/stem climate change - where does that ignorance emerge from I wonder when we have Donald Trump denying it and the rest of the globe pandering to him - us too in readiness for the need to have our 'special relationship' when we leave the EU. Get real all those of you who believe we have done the best for our young generation - we haven't - and the political unawareness that has been rife in this country among the general population for years is the reason - people voted to leave the EU having been fed incorrect information, having been subjected to a totally undemocratic process fuelled by the cheating tactics employed by the Leave campaign to flood the country with propaganda as untrue as all the rubbish that came out in the Second World War. I despair that even now when food prices have shot up 25%, when the great businesses that voted for Brexit have fled the country and set up in Singapore, Korea, (Dyson for one, Ford for another, Honda for another), when there is stockpiling in warehouses of 10 x the normal by people in the know - we are still wandering around blindly saying we had a democratic vote and that kids in school can't air their views when they're the future of the country.

Bingo!

You got everything in there, cakebaker.

It would be interesting for schools to have a vote fot 16 year old and above - asking students to give reasons for their vote, the ev3nt being preceded by them doing research ( in their own time mostly so as to exclude teacher bias) The result would show whether or not they are mature/politically aware enough to have the vote - not the yes/no result but the reasons they give for their answer.

The trouble at the moment is that we are not being given enough information to make an informed decision, and this is partly due to the fact that nobody knows for sure how it will pan out. There is also the possibility that the EU will chane drastically after we leave, not only because we leave but because it is on an unsustainable path financially, and because we are not the only country to be irritated by the control it exerts over our lives. Another point to consider is that when you create an “us” you also create a “them”. We need to find a way to cooperate with the rest of the world, eg Russia, so that they do not feel threatened by Europe.
I think that basically what we need are rules and an organisation that enables easy trading with any partner that meets certain basic standards of production and human rights.

Sorry for typos pressed the wrong button.

Very well said cakebaker

Retired65

Can I ask where you got that list from?

Was it from your close analytical reading of the Lisbon Treaty itself?

because we are not the only country to be irritated by the control it exerts over our lives.

starbird Can you explain what control this is and how it adversely affects your life?

an organisation that enables easy trading with any partner that meets certain basic standards of production and human rights.

Do you have any existing organisation in mind?