David Lammy/Stacey Dooley

Unfortunately the colour of one's skin does matter! It would be great if it did not.
But being non-white in a majority white community is not always a walk in the park1! There is still huge prejudice against people who are black, Asian, Arab & Chinese etc because they look different and even if British born, some white British consider them less British!
Even on this thread people have alluded to the fact they do not think Lammy should have spoken out because, in their opinion, he is not quite 100% British

Lenny spoke about this row yesterday. He said, in a jokey way, that David Lammy might say 'screw you white people'.

The colour of one's skin 'shouldn't' matter PECS

And yes, racism does still exist. But accusing innocent people of racism when it isn't there causes more resentment, therefore more racism. It has the reverse effect.

D.L. should be focusing on 'real' racism and stop finding it where it doesn't exist.

If Lenny's got any sense he'll stay right out of it. Before he's accused of letting his white ex wife be photographed holding a black baby.

As a founder of Comic Relief he must be mortified that something he helped create may go down the pan because a racist has undermined all the good work he helped to build by making white celebrities feel uncomfortable they ever held a starving black child and got involved.

breeze I guess you have to let the victims of racism define racism.. not the majority group of citizens who have caused the hurt. Not saying that there are not 10000s of individuals who are not racist but society as a whole still is.

Nothing is above criticism and as Socrates said, the unexamined life is not worth living. It is right that we consider the possibility that Comic Relief is using “tired and unhelpful stereotypes”. I will confess that I am tired of watching “poverty porn” in the numerous TV adverts asking for donations showing pictures of sick and malnourished children. As for the celebrity issue I don’t want to be entertained in this way any more. It is endless. Sir Bob’s admirable aspiration to end poverty has turned into an annual bun fight. If, as many posters say, this is the only way to raise money, then so be it but surely it can be refined and modernised. I want to donate and I do. I don’t need to put on a red nose as well. But then perhaps some people will only donate if they get something back e.g. an opportunity to take part in a sponsored event.

www.nicolagreen.com
David Lammy’s wife, if anyone is interested.

PECS isn't that like saying no one can have an opinion unless they've experienced something. People can imagine how it must feel. Otherwise how do we know it's wrong. I've never been murdered. I know it's wrong.

And I do not believe 'society as a whole' is racist. If it were, black people would still be repressed in this country and they're not.

Oh, and the majority of the citizens haven't caused the hurt. The majority of our ancestors caused the hurt. It's that sort of attitude that keeps racism alive and well. Punishing people for the crimes of their ancestors.

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

I think your statement at 07.08 is wholly disingenuous Anja.

Annie I'm sure there will be people on here who are "wealthy" its got nothing to do with how much money they have its the outdated attitude thats the problem.White saviour swoops in to sort things out because the "natives" cant and has a wee snap taken with a black baby to show how caring they are by even holding a child of colour never mind admiring it!! All the while grinning like an idiot while said child is undernourished or infirm .Come on...surely we're better than that!

*Why certain countries, such as those in the continent of Africa, need to be taught how to look after and work together with their fellow countrymen and women, heaven knows.
Surely it's an inherent trait that even animals have.
If they need teaching the basics, there is no hope*

That is absolutely vile and has been passed on to the relevant authorities. It is classifies as hate crime.

The only thing that keeps racism alive are racist attitudes and behaviours.
Being blind to racism does not mean it is not happening.

Gabriella54 "Why certain countries, such as those in the continent of Africa, need to be taught how to look after and work together with their fellow countrymen and women, heaven knows."

Whatever do you mean by that?

PECS
Of course there is racism, always was, always will be. It is not a one way street though. Every race has predjudices towards anyone who is different, remember the ethnic cleansing in Uganda, Bosnia etc. Whether it is a survival of the strongest phenomena that is part if our DNA I dint know. I do always imagine the earth as a petrie dish with colonies of bacteria, each will try to overwhelm and destroy its competitors. Maybe thats what we are on a more complex scale.

while said child is undernourished or infirm .Come on...surely we're better than that!
I did see a short film the other day about one of the health care workers who is being funded by Comic Relief doing her rounds and how thankful people were to see her - one older woman had AIDS and said she gets no other help whatsoever.

So don't condemn this out of hand - although I do realise, as stated in my posts above, that much is wrong and that perhaps giving aid stops the leaders from doing what is right by their own people.

Well, I am trying to find a link to that short film but when I google all I get is David Lammy links.

If people suffer because of his statements and people here do not give then that will be a tragedy. African governments working towards a better life for their people is not going to happen overnight and in the meantime Comic Relief is plugging the gap.

Jalima1108 so true, I have already donated to Comic Relief this year.

Joelsnan Prejudice is not always racist though. Racisim is about power and control.

To be honest, I'm pretty disgusted by some of the remarks on here.

The phrase "playing the race card" is often used when non-white people stand up to discriminatory behaviour and practices. And it cannot be denied that racial prejudice and discrimination - whether conscious or unconscious - are very much present in all areas of public life. Statistical analysis and undercover research has shown quite clearly that non-white people have unequal access to employment, housing, justice, education, etc, etc.

A poster stated "racism won't be beaten until the resentment of the past is forgotten". I would turn that statement around and say "Resentment of past and present treatment will not be eliminated until racism is beaten".

It was also stated: "Most people have moved on from the days of colonialism". Tell that to the Chagossians who were forcibly removed from their homes - and are still dispossesed several decades later - or to the black South Africans who suffered under apartheid and who still see wealth and land overwhelmingly in the hands of white South Africans. Non-white people throughout the world can see what has happened and what continues to happen. It is not so easy for them to "move on" from the subject of colonialism.

POGS The scenario you set - a black man (or woman) holding a white child in a world where white people are, in the main, seriously disadvantaged as compared to black people and where black people provide them with aid - with strings attached - does not exist. There is no example of, for instance, a European, predominantly white, country being occupied and taken over by black people in order to strip that country of its resources and subjugate its people.

Non-white people were said to be intellectually, emotionally, culturally and morally inferior to white people. It provided a convenient reason for seizing power and stealing natural resources and the cheap labour of millions of people. In my view, the issue is about power and who holds and inherits that power, rather than race but race provided a useful tool to divide and rule.

Some of these colonialist-type views still exist - I believe Gabriella's comments clearly demonstrate this:

"Why certain countries, such as those in the continent of Africa, need to be taught how to look after and work together with their fellow countrymen and women, heaven knows. Surely it's an inherent trait that even animals have. If they need teaching the basics, there is no hope.".

It has also been reported on here that Lammy's comments have caused donors to state they will no longer support Comic Relief because of the "ingratitude" shown by his remarks. So, it appears that because a black person - Lammy - had the temerity to voice his opinions on an issue which he felt needed addressing and which he felt strongly about, people decide that black people should be punished. This smacks very much of the days of black slavery when, if one slave became "uppity" all the black workers were punished to teach them who was boss.

As far as I am aware, Lammy didn't accuse Dooley or anyone else of being racist - he objected to the image of Africa and African people being presented on programmes such as Comic Relief. It is he who has been described as "racist".

I can understand why Dooley was hurt by his remarks since they were aimed at her personally- and I initially felt rather sorry for her. I think it would have been better if he had spoken about the subject in more general terms. However, I think her response is likely to encourage even more bad feeling and, to my mind, calls into question whether it was her commitment to helping people in Africa which caused her to take part or her wish to remain in the public eye. I would have admired her if she had expressed her hurt and asked Lammy to discuss the matter with her, rather than ramp up the bad feeling.

I agree with the sentiment but I think he picked the wrong person to hang this on. Stacey is a good journalist/presenter that actually goes into situations rather than just doing superficial photo ops and she would IMO be the first to condemn white saviourism/poverty tourism.

I do think white saviour sentiments exist and are an issue but I have seen a few of Staceys programs and she doesnt swoop in all "aww look at the poor brown people if only they had our western ways". She does credit people with seeking their own solutions etc

However it is a bit disappointing that she is involved in comic relief, I thought she had more grit than that and would expect to more likely see her on an espose of comic relief than IN it.

Comic relief is usually the realm of the Nottinghill brat pack who directly fund the poverty they weep about through their cocaine habits IMO

There really are too many genuinely white saviour types out there who DO need to be called out on their virtue signalling, its a shame its all fallen on staceys lap. There have been many photos like hers but its the TIMING of hers, not het actions, that have meant she is taking the fall for others who went before her if that makes sense.

She is less guilty than most of them. Perhaps she is somewhat guilty but she is nowhere near as bad as many of the others.

A general critcism of white saviour behaviour, with perhaps a montage of examples which may or may not have included her post, would have been fairer and more effective and would have got the message across better

Sadly an important message/discussion is being missed by having made this a personal Lammy Vs Stacey thing.

Do you know I am still smarting about those Romans. I just can’t let it go.

Invading us, raping, pillaging, enslaving the Saxons, building bypasses through our gardens and scoffing all our sheep.

I think it’s time for an apology.

Lily65 I hope you have not reported GG for hate crime. Think very carefully. Her post was badly worded, I think she meant it shouldn’t be necessary to educate people to get along. Anyone in authority reading her very first post on the matter will see she mentioned she agreed with David Lammy. I have been feeling uneasy about your motives recently. Other GN’s have tsk tsked at some of your comments but I have been pondering what you are hoping to achieve. You appear to be floating from thread to thread posting comments about racism wherever you can. For example, your ridiculous plantation blind comment and others of a similar nature. I am wondering if you are trying to stir up racial hatred where there is none. So I would be very careful that the authorities do not go through your posts and it comes back to bite you on the bum.