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'Lisbon Treaty 2020'

(51 Posts)
MaizieD Tue 05-Mar-19 14:12:56

I am posting this because a post about this 'treaty' is going viral on social media (and, indeed, has already been posted here on Gnet fairly recently). It's titled 'Lisbon Treaty 2020' and consists of a list of things which are supposedly going to happen to in the EU after 2020.

It is completely fake and utterly untrue. There is no such thing as a Lisbon Treaty 2020 and there is nothing at all in the real Lisbon Treaty (2009) which justifies it.

There is a refutation of it here in the form of a twitter thread by Steve Peers, Professor of EU Law at Essex University:

threadreaderapp.com/thread/1087258784001654784.html

And an article by Polly Toynbee from today's Guardian:

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/mar/04/anti-eu-brexit-fake-news

Of course, there are Leavers who will believe that all the viral post says is absolutely true but I'm not writing this thread for people who don't recognise the truth when it rises up and hits them in the face It's for Remainers who may see the viral post on their social media and want an authoritative refutation

Urmstongran Tue 05-Mar-19 14:52:57

Hi MaizieD thank you for this - a Leaver who is quite open to facts. Actually I hadn’t heard anything about a LT2020 but now I know it’s rubbish I shan’t read anything about it should I come across it. 👍🏼

varian Tue 05-Mar-19 20:49:09

Toyota and BMW warn no-deal Brexit could hit UK investment

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47457219

Urmstongran Tue 05-Mar-19 21:31:44

‘could’

andycameron69 Tue 05-Mar-19 22:22:01

when the Lisbon treaty is in effect in 2020, those things will happen

so glad we are getting right out of the eveil EU

Joelsnan Tue 05-Mar-19 22:39:11

Typical Remainer comment by Polly Toynbee:
Those with the least education are most prone to believe conspiracy theories such as these anti-Europe tropes – and the least educated group are older generations. Britain being undone by its longstanding failure to give a good education to all, cherry-picking the grammar school few for so long, is apt revenge for decades of neglect.
The majority of the U.K. population both remainers and leavers recognise much of the propaganda from both sides as rubbish, just as they did before the referendum.
Obviously Polly Toynbee must have been a bit ‘rattled’ to have felt the need to write the ‘refuting’ article.
Maybe she is the one who ought to examine her own level of education and situational understanding.

lemongrove Tue 05-Mar-19 22:48:51

Polly Toynbee is always rattled, it’s her natural state.
Do you think she knows that she is actually an oldie herself?
Actually Polly dear, our generation did pretty well in the education stakes.

Fake news is everywhere, and I expect all sorts get taken in at times by it, both...gasp! Leavers and Remainers.
Cynical hacks like Toynbee sow division with their every word.

MaizieD Tue 05-Mar-19 22:48:59

Joelsnan.

both remainers and leavers recognise much of the propaganda from both sides as rubbish,

I sincerely hope that you do recognise this 'Lisbon Treaty' meme as rubbish. Several Gnetters seemed to be convinced by it when it was posted on a Brexit thread a week or two ago.

Joelsnan Tue 05-Mar-19 23:29:44

MaizieD
As an uneducated oldie, of course I recognise truth from propaganda. From what I remember of the discussions surrounding the Lisbon Treaty there was much concern from a number of countries including U.K. with regard to some of its content in fact there was supposed to be a referendum then about whether to sign or not but Gordon Brown preempted and signed.

MaizieD Tue 05-Mar-19 23:42:59

So do you believe the meme?

Joelsnan Tue 05-Mar-19 23:46:00

MaizieD
FFS...No!

MaizieD Wed 06-Mar-19 10:26:07

Just to be absolutely clear (because, owing to targeting, Remainers may not have seen this on their social media) this is the text of the fake news post about the non-existent 'Lisbon Treaty 2020'. It's moving rapidly and being believed. Stamp it out!

Start

1: The UK along with all existing members of the EU lose their abstention veto in 2020 as laid down in the Lisbon Treaty when the system changes to that of majority acceptance with no abstentions or veto’s being allowed.
2: All member nations will become states of the new federal nation of the EU by 2022 as clearly laid out in the Lisbon treaty with no exceptions or veto’s.
3: All member states must adopt the Euro by 2022 and any new member state must do so within 2 years of joining the EU as laid down in the Lisbon treaty.
4: The London stock exchange will move to Frankfurt in 2020 and be integrated into the EU stock exchange resulting in a loss of 200,000 plus jobs in the UK because of the relocation. (This has already been pre-agreed and is only on a holding pattern due to the Brexit negotiations, which if Brexit does happen, the move is fully cancelled - but if not and the UK remains a member it’s full steam ahead for the move.)
5: The EU Parliament and ECJ become supreme over all legislative bodies of the UK.
6: The UK will adopt 100% of whatever the EU Parliament and ECJ lays down without any means of abstention or veto, negating the need for the UK to have the Lords or even the Commons as we know it today.
7: The UK will NOT be able to make its own trade deals.
8: The UK will NOT be able to set its own trade tariffs.
9 The UK will NOT be able to set its own trade quotas.
10: The UK loses control of its fishing rights
11: The UK loses control of its oil and gas rights
12: The UK loses control of its borders and enters the Schengen region by 2022 - as clearly laid down in the Lisbon treaty
13: The UK loses control of its planning legislation
14: The UK loses control of its armed forces including its nuclear deterrent
15: The UK loses full control of its taxation policy
16: The UK loses the ability to create its own laws and to implement them
17: The UK loses its standing in the Commonwealths
18: The UK loses control of any provinces or affiliated nations e.g.: Falklands, Cayman Islands, Gibraltar etc
19: The UK loses control of its judicial system
20: The UK loses control of its international policy
21: The UK loses full control of its national policy
22: The UK loses its right to call itself a nation in its own right.
23: The UK loses control of its space exploration program
24: The UK loses control of its Aviation and Sea lane jurisdiction
25: The UK loses its rebate in 2020 as laid down in the Lisbon treaty
26: The UK’s contribution to the EU is set to increase by an average of 1.2bn pa and by 2.3bn pa by 2020
This is the future that the youths of today think we stole from them?
They should be on their knees thanking us for saving them from being turned into Orwellian automatons, if we escape from control of the EU.

End

And an explanation of the actual Lisbon Treaty here (because I don't think anyone is likely to read the actual thing...):

www.robert-schuman.eu/en/understanding-the-lisbon-treaty

Jalima1108 Wed 06-Mar-19 10:58:02

Were people getting confused with Europe 2020? ie the 10 year strategy for 2010 - 2020 proposed in the Lisbon Treaty?

It is nothing like the above though!!

Joelsnan Wed 06-Mar-19 11:28:23

www.europarl.europa.eu/factsheets/en/sheet/5/the-treaty-of-lisbon

Above is a more rational explanation of the Lisbon Treaty. Much of it is just amendment, however there are issues with extension of powers:
The Lisbon Treaty gives the EU full legal personality. Therefore, the Union obtains the ability to sign international treaties in the areas of its attributed powers or to join an international organisation. Member States may only sign international agreements that are compatible with EU law.
Statements such as this and others within the document may cause concern for some.
There is also mention of the extension of ECJ jurisdiction.
Some may consider this alarming, However realistic explanations rather than scaremongering tactics dusplayed by the Robert Schuman extract posted by MaizieD are unhelpful.

RosieLeah Wed 06-Mar-19 13:22:48

All evidence points to the older generation being much better educated than children today. Although, having said that, when a fellow 'Gransnetter' thinks the Saxons invaded Britain before the Romans, I have to wonder!

maryeliza54 Wed 06-Mar-19 15:44:21

I think different generations are educated differently -I certainly would not say necessarily ‘better’ - I’m too well educated to make such a sweeping generalisation without a meaningful discussion of what ‘better’ and ‘educated’ means for starters

GrandmaKT Wed 06-Mar-19 16:01:01

Having worked in adult education for most of my working life, I can tell you that, in most areas (certainly when talking about "the three Rs"), the older generation are better educated.
I taught maths and English and we had to test students when they started to ascertain their starting level. Time and again, I would get pensioners saying "I left school at 14 and haven't done anything since" coming out higher than seventeen and eighteen year-olds who had only just left education. Very sad.

GrandmaKT Wed 06-Mar-19 16:03:08

BTW, thanks MazieD for posting the information and the link. I have noticed people referring to this "Lisbon 2020" scenario on social media recently. I googled it and quickly realised it is a load of rubbish, but good to have the links to post for others.

andycameron69 Wed 06-Mar-19 16:38:47

all those items on the 2020 Lisbon are real and will happen...
no deal proper Brexit will save us and I am elated

flowers

grin

Jalima1108 Wed 06-Mar-19 17:58:21

David Icke is helping to spread the word about this apparently.

He who said the Queen was a lizard.

varian Wed 06-Mar-19 18:10:34

That tells us a lot Jalima

MaizieD Wed 06-Mar-19 18:27:41

The Schumann documents date from the time of the Lisbon Treaty 2009. They were meant to explain it. I'm at a complete loss to understand in what way they are 'scaremongering', Joelsnan. They seemed perfectly straightforward to me when I read them a few weeks ago. They have nothing whatsoever to do with Brexit; they predate it by 7 years.hmm

MaizieD Wed 06-Mar-19 18:29:13

Thank you GrandmaKT. That was why I posted it!

andycameron69 Thu 07-Mar-19 16:06:48

its all terribly scarey this business

GrandmaKT Mon 11-Mar-19 22:26:43

Seemingly this Fake News was shared on Twitter by Ester McVey over the weekend!
The BBC have covered it in a reality check. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47523168
What have things come to when our MPs are spreading fake rumours?