LP anitsemitism / CP islamophobia

Diversion

Anniebach, Islamophobia is in my opinion even more prevalent in the Conservative party than anti-semitism is in the Labour movement. Jenny Formby was correct when she pointed out to the Labour party NEC, that what are regarded as racist remarks will always occur in a party of over half a million members, along with an affiliated membership of over six million. In that, you simply cannot control what every person states.

However, the Conservative party has a total membership of around one hundred thousand (far less many analysts believe), and yet, without doubt, they have a substantial and growing problem with Islamophobia that they seem only to wish to ignore.

Below is an article from the Asian Image publication of October 2017 that reports on an invitation given to a Hindu preacher Tapan Ghosh by the Tory MP Bob Blackman. He was requested to speak at two meetings within the British parliament. This person is so extreme that he has even condoned the genocide of the Rohingya Muslims in Burma.

Article from Asian Image begins here:-
Labour MP has called it "incredible" that a Tory backbencher would host an event in Parliament attended by an "anti-Muslim extremist".

Naz Shah said that Tapan Ghosh held "abhorrent views" about Muslims, saying Parliament should not be "a platform to propagate and legitimise hate and extremist views".

Tory MP Bob Blackman said he did no accept Mr Ghosh's views, but said it was right that MPs "have the opportunity to hear evidence from people of what is happening in other countries".

The Tory MP said Mr Ghosh had attended two events in Parliament last week, which Mr Blackman hosted in his role as chairman of the all-party parliamentary group for British Hindus.

Raising a point of order in the Commons, Ms Shah said: "According to many of today's news outlets, (Mr Blackman) hosted anti-Muslim extremist Tapan Ghosh in committee room 12 last Wednesday.

"Mr Ghosh holds abhorrent views, is on record for calling upon the United Nations to control the birth rate of Muslims, praising the genocide of Rohingya Muslims in Burma and also said Muslims should be forced to leave their religion if they come to a western.

The above I find totally disgusting and the Tory leadership refuses to even acknowledge that a racist problem exists within the party.

Link to the above full article can be found here:- www.asianimage.co.uk/news/15623470.mp-shocked-that-anti-muslim-extremist-was-invited-to-parliament/

The Equality and Human Rights Commision could be starting a legal investigation into anti semetism in the Labour Party .

‘Having received a number of complaints of
Anti semetism in the party we believe Labour May have
Unlawfully discriminated against people because of their
ethnicity and religious beliefs , their concerns are sufficient
To consider using their statutory enforcement powers ‘

I think we need to be aware of all the elements involved here. Whatever the situation regarding anti-semitism in the Labour party there is a substantial and organised element that would not wish to see a Labour government headed by Jeremy Corbyn because that government would be more sympathetic to the Palestinians and that is something the Israelis would find unacceptable. Quite what lengths they would go to prevent this are unknown.
There undoubtedly is Islamaphobia within the Conservative party but I very much doubt if the majority of members are involved.
The problem with all this publicity about both accusations is that it feeds the prejudices of the far right and the far right is in ascendence in many places.
It is however only the left who have actively organised to stand against all prejudice hence the NoPasaran! meeting in London on 2nd March and the Newcastle Unites group organised after an attack on a Muslim school in Newcastle. Making accusations does little to stop prejudice and may actually fuel it. Standing up and speaking out against all racism and prejudice is what works.

I agree , speaking out against all racism is right, I do not agree with ‘ they are more racist than we are ‘ attitude

yggdrasil

"The MSM have exaggerated the amount of anti-semitism in Labour, and have deliberately told lies about Corbyn in particular. They haven't searched for Islamophobia in the Tory party because it doesn't fit their agenda."
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You are in denial over the timing of the Jeremy for Leader/Momentum/Labour Party and the reported anecdotes of antisemitism gaining traction in the Labour Party!

For years now the Corbyn supporters have blamed the right wing press for making up facts about Corbyn

It's pathetic!

Why don't you listen to the Labour MP's and councillors instead of thinking what they say is ' hear say' , unreliable, lies, a conspiracy.

From the Baroness Royall report in 2016 which revealed Oxford Labour students engaged in antisemitism Corbyn supporters have denied antisemitism became a problem for the Jeremy for Leader/Momentum Party .

Fast forward to 2018/2019 and the problem has became even more widespread and the MP's / Councillors who have experienced harassment , bullying and antisemitic attacks by ' their own side ' for the most part are demonized , NOT by decent Labour Members or voters but by the Corbyn supporters often new and returned to the party often .

You don't have to read the right wing press for information , just listen to the debates on antisemitism and harassment in Parliament to gain some knowledge.

As for the msm and Islamophobia in the Conservative Party I am sure the left wing msm has been doing it's job and looked hard for stories.

If Islamophobia or Antisemitism is found in ANY political party it should be dealt with. The scale of the evidence within the Labour Party does have a bearing and those who don't believe it are on a hide to nowhere.

The difference is if factual evidence is there I would not / could not defend , call it lies , call it a conspiracy to protect ANY party.

RosieLeah Wed 06-Mar-19 12:21:00

Why has this suddenly become a problem?
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It has not ' suddenly become a problem ' .

POGS at least Labour councillors and MPs are condemning any evidence of anti-semitism. And it is Labour and the left who are organising against all racism. Hence No Pasaran!
What the Conservatives have done I don't know, but I suspect they are hiding their heads hoping the MSM won't take it up and ignoring it. Much the way that Boris Johnson's remarks about women in Burkhas have been glossed over and ignored by everyone. (oh he said 'sorry' didn't he? And that seemed to be enough for everyone. No enquiry, no reprimand, no suspension. Double standards or what?)

I know there is anti semetism in the Labour Party so after over 50 membership and loyalty I have left the party, I will not make excuses or point a finger at other parties with a
‘They are racist too, either one is against racism or not, there is no middle road,

Corbyn praised the anti sematic wall mural , his defence ?
I didn’t look closely

Why accuse Johnson but defend Corbyn?

trisher

"POGS at least Labour councillors and MPs are condemning any evidence of anti-semitism."
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Yes they are and I am pleased you acknowledge that .

That begs the question why you keep denying it is evidence based , calling it out as some sort of Corbyn conspiracy by the right wing press?

As for :-

"What the Conservatives have done I don't know, but I suspect they are hiding their heads hoping the MSM won't take it up and ignoring it. "
-
If they were hiding their heads they wouldn't have ' suspended 14 members over alleged Islamophobia" as humptydumpty reported previously would they?
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As for :-

" Much the way that Boris Johnson's remarks about women in Burkhas have been glossed over and ignored by everyone. (oh he said 'sorry' didn't he? And that seemed to be enough for everyone. No enquiry, no reprimand, no suspension. Double standards or what"
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You are mistaken!

Boris Johnson was challenged by the Tory Party and this was the outcome of an independent panel looking into whether or not he broke the Tory Party Code of Conduct.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/dec/20/boris-johnson-cleared-over-burqa-comments

" Boris Johnson has been cleared of breaking the Conservative party’s code of conduct over his comments about veiled Muslim women."

" Friday’s Daily Telegraph reported the independent panel, chaired by Naomi Ellenbogen QC, found that while his use of language in the column could be considered “provocative”, it would be “unwise to censor excessively the language of party representatives or the use of satire to emphasise a viewpoint, particularly a viewpoint that is not subject to criticism”.

It said Tory party rules do not “override an individual’s right to freedom of expression”.

Boris Johnson made a crass remark in his article but he was actually defending the right of women to wear the burka so I think the attempts to call him of islamophobia were /are implausible .

The Tory Party does have a problem with Islamophobia

Interesting and recent article from the New Statesman.

Anniebach Thu 07-Mar-19 10:25:33

"The Equality and Human Rights Commision could be starting a legal investigation into anti semetism in the Labour Party . "
----

It will be interesting to see if this does develop into a full blown inquiry.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/mar/07/labour-antisemitism-equalities-watchdog-opens-investigation

I have my doubts

I feel the depths that some within the Labour movement will sink to in their efforts to discredit Jeremy Corbyn has been demonstrated in the recent actions of Margaret Hodge. In that, Hodge was offered and accepted a meeting with Corbyn to discuss her stated serious concerns of anti-semitism within the party. It was agreed that no recording of the meeting would be made as that would enable a full and forthright discussion to be enabled within both parties.

However, in reports that she has not refuted, Margret Hodge then recorded the meeting on her phone without the knowledge of Jeremy Corbyn, no doubt hoping he would make some unguarded comment that she could later use against him. That action in any commercial company would be judged as gross misconduct and grounds for dismissal, an action that has been supported by the Industrial courts.

Undoubtedly there has been anti-semitic comments and actions carried out within the Labour Party and its affiliated movements. However, the actions of Margret Hodge and others of similar vein would give evidence to the fact that they are more interested in discrediting and bringing to an end the leadership of Jeremy Corbyn rather than working with that elected leadership to stamp out anti-Semitism within the organisation.

In the above, many now within the Labour movement undoubtedly feel that the sooner the likes of Margeret Hodge and other MPs who would act in similar manner take leave of the party or are de-selected by their Constituency parties the better the organisation will be. That situation would be in reality benifitial in terms of ending anti-Semitism and then enable the leadership to concentrate public attention to the real problems that Britain faces.

As stated, anti-Semitism has existed and still does exist within the Labour movement. However, some are using that problem as a cover for their own self-serving ambitions, even to the extent of ignoring the demonstrated overwhelming democratic will of the membership in terms of who should be its leader(s).

In the above, many now within the Labour movement Grandad

" feel that the sooner the likes of Margeret Hodge and other MPs who would act in similar manner take leave of the party or are de-selected by their Constituency parties the better the organisation will be. That situation would be in reality benifitial in terms of ending anti-Semitism and then enable the leadership to concentrate public attention to the real problems that Britain faces."
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You sum up the point that has been raised for 3+ years so well.

Deselect those who don't fall at the feet of Corbyn in worship.

Deselect those who ' dare ' to tell the truth about antisemitism in the party.

Deselect them because ' WE CAN ' now we have gained control of the party.

The Dispatches programme on Momentum back in 2016 was a Clarion Call telling how deselection of MP's was the aim behind the Momentum/ Labour Party Corbyn Leadership. Now those voices are in ' total control ' of the Momentum / Labour Party we see and hear their aim is set in concrete as your post points out so well.

If the Labour Party got rid of Margaret Hodge and the other MP’s who are Jews there wouldn’t be anti semitism in the party.

POGS, do you condone the action of Margaret Hodge in secretly recording the meeting she held with Jeremy Corbyn when she had personally agreed and assured him no record of that meeting would be made.

I my view (and I am sure in the view of many) her action at that meeting were below contempt.

The character and policies of the Labour party have changed in many significant respects since 2014, and those changes have been overwhelmingly and democratically endorsed by the entire membership of the Labour movement. However, the party still has MPs such as Hodge who have never accepted the above democracy and pursue their own agenda no matter how low they have to sink to carry that out, as Hodge demonstrated.

In the above, the best course of action for her and those of her mind would be to leave the party in a respectable manner as others have done or to fight democratically from within for the changes they wish to see.

However, such actions as the above would not even come into the mind of Hodge and those around her. In that, all they can think of is causing maximum disruption within the party, and while carrying that out making sure the right wing press are on board in those actions.

Unfortunately, breaking her word in the recording of that meeting demonstrated for all to see just what her real motives are in the anti-Semitism debate. In that, it is the undermining of the Labour leadership is all that matters for the self-serving gain of Hodge and those in like mind.

All I would stay to her and those others such as her is "JUST GET OUT, YOU HAVE DEMONSTRATED EXACTLY WHAT YOU REALLY ARE", that being below contempt.

Grandad I was horrified to hear Margaret Hodge declare last night on a TV interview that anti-Zionism was the same as anti-semitism.

If the Labour Party got rid of Margaret Hodge and the other MP’s who are Jews there wouldn’t be anti semitism in the party

What is that supposed to mean? Makes no sense.,

POGS the response to Boris Johnson's remarks shows actually that there is really no appreciation of the racism in the Conservative party. An "independent" panel cleared him- really? How many Muslim women who choose to wear either the hijab or the burka were on that panel I wonder? Who was on the panel?-there's no mention in the article. And yet we are supposed to accept their ruling because it was all a joke. Women who are being abused because of the way they dress might not get the 'joke.'
Then we can look at an accusation of anti-semitism made about a mural which the artist explained showed only 2 Jewish bankers but which was described as caricaturing Jews because the men depicted had big noses and beards, despite the fact that most older men have big noses, and the men depicted were named. The accusation of anti-semitism was maintained despite the artist's words.
So you see we have Islamaphobic comments dismissed as a joke and a work of art considered anti-semitic because some considered it so. In my opinion if we do not have a level playing field where accusations of Islamaphobic remarks are judged by the people who find the remarks offensive, just as anti-semitic art is judged by Jewish people, then we still have a society which accepts racism as the norm, and a Conservative party which fails to investigate it properly or to listen to Muslim women.

Anja, many thanks for your post @20:20 today(07/03/19) as I was unaware that Margret Hodge had made such a statement. However, that in my humble opinion just further demonstrates what a despicable, brainless self-serving person she is in all reality.

So the wall mural wasn’t anti semetic ? This means Corbyn
Lied again

www.timesofisrael.com/corbyn-regrets-defending-london-mural-he-now-says-is-anti-semitic/

Annie try reading the whole post instead of the bit you want to argue about. If the mural was anti-semitic, Boris's remarks were Islamaphobic. You can't judge one thing a joke because some people think it is. If Muslims are offended they have the right to consider the remarks Islamaphobic. I don't suppose the mural resulted in any woman being abused or attacked because of the way she dressed.

Anja re Anniebach’s post........ it’s called irony!
Not everybody gets it on GN.