LP anitsemitism / CP islamophobia

lemongrove thanks a lot!

trisher you have no concept on how Jewish people are suppose to look ? No surprise in your reply

Why should I have? Have you Annie? If you are referring to the Nazi concept of Jewish appearance I know what they required as the ideal Aryan, but I wouldn't apply that to anyone. Would you?

No trisher which is why I question the comment ‘she didn’t look Jewish’ , first time I have ever come across
‘She didn’t look Jewish.

Once again an attempt to distract from Islamaphobia and rascism in the Conservative party. Gets a bit boring really. As I have said only the Left are orgaining against racism.

All I have heard about racism in the Conservative party is someone ,sorry can’t remeber her name, said there was Islamaphobia in the party, Johnson and his comment about
Muslim women dress and George Osbourne alleged said it was in the party. Not heard of police being involved or death threats. Links would be helpful

trisher.

As I said :-

" If antisemitism or islamophobia is found in ANY political party it should be dealt with.

End of.

I am not saying islamophobia is not in the Conservative Party nor would I say there maybe some with antisemitic views/opinions. Only an idiot would say it was not possible."
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I do not fight shy of saying cases of Islamophobia or Antisemitism could be in the Conservative Party. I do jot fight shy of saying cases of Islamophobia and Antisemitism could be in the Labour Party.

Unlike you !

However the scale of Antisemitism, intimidation, bullying and harassment in the Labour Party is enormous yet you deny anything has happened, it is a conspiracy , MP.' s and Councillors are liars.

No matter how many reports, facts and evidence come forward, no matter how many debates on Antisemitism in Parliament take place and the MP's tell of their intimidation the Labour Party members such as yourself will not believe a word because you are blinkered to what is happening to protect Corbyn.

Decent Labour members and voters want no truck with it and it became a problem when Corbyn and those on the far left who surround him , probably a lot of those who returned to the Party who hold far left views themselves and ' rejoined ' Labour after loosing faith with the Blairite / Brown era took control of Labour.

It is how the cases/allegations of either Islamophobia or Antisemitism are being dealt with that counts .

What i can’t understand are posters who dismiss the facts of anti semetism in the Labour Party and was shocked to read
‘She didn’t look Jewish’ , do Margaret Hodge, Luciana Berger, Ruth Smeeth, Ester Rantzen, Moureen Lipman, look Jewish, look alike ?

The problem in the Labour Party has been widely publicised POGS but any attempts to deal with anti-semitism have been roundly dismissed by some posters. The enquiry by Shami Chakarabati has constantly been denigrated in spite of the fact that her record on human rights is impeccable, and yet an 'independent' panel (who were they?) into what Boris said is greeted as gospel. Can you wonder that I don't respect such biased opinions? Nor have I seen any attempt by the Conservatives to counter the very active and vociferous right wing extremists who feed on articles like Boris's. And it is has been Muslims who have suffered most where I live. The left are organising to protect all rights. The Conservatives are as usual ignoring things, even George Osborne says so (although it pains me to agree with him)

Charkarabati being swiftly moved to the Lords by a leader who is so against that establishment, has he put anyone else in there ?

POG's your argument regarding " scale of complaints of Islamophobia or antisemitism in both parties falls apart as you do not take into consideration the difference in the membership numbers within those parties..

The Labour party has a membership of over half a million, and there are over six million affiliated members in the trades unions etc. The Conservative party has a membership in total of approximately one hundred thousand (many analysts put that number much lower); therefore the number of complaints in the Labour party would be higher just in terms people allegedly carrying out anti-semitism because of that number members.

The Conservative party refuses to carry out any overall investigation into the scale islamophobia in the party, so we do not even know the number of complaints that have forwarded to the party chairman.

We know that fourteen senior members ( counsellors etc) have been suspended or have resigned over acts of Islamophobia in recent weeks, but the Tory powers that be still say "there is no problem".

Of course, there was also the invite of
Extremist Hindu preacher Tapan Ghosh to speak within the Westminster parliament estate by a Tory MP. The Tory party response to this person who has even condoned the genocide of the genocide of the Rohingya Muslim people in Myanmar, "there is no problem."

Apologies should be,"the genocide" above not the "the genocide of the genocide."

End of a long day.

Grandad

" The Labour party has a membership of over half a million, and there are over six million affiliated members in the trades unions etc. The Conservative party has a membership in total of approximately one hundred thousand (many analysts put that number much lower); therefore the number of complaints in the Labour party would be higher just in terms people allegedly carrying out anti-semitism because of that number members."
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So it is a percentages problem not the type of person who belongs to a party.

So when the Membership of the Labour increased to 500.000 it was inevitable Antisemitism would increase too.

Hmm.

Personally I think it was the type of person who joined but at least it is an acceptance Antisemitism did rise with the increase of new / returned members to the party so that is getting somewhere.

How does the percentage evaluation of a problem work when the Conservatives and Labour Parties have more or less the same amount of MP's but it is the Labour Party MP's who have been raising the issue of Antisemitism for 3+ years and apart from Sayeeda Warsi I don't know of any Conservative MP who has complained of institutional Islamophobia from within their Party .

Surely if it was percentage based then the Conservative MP's would have been shouting from the hill tops like the Labour MP's have been doing.

The reason for anti semetism in the Labour Party is caused by the increased number of members ? This means the British are anti Semetic ?

A far larger number are anti-Islam Annie they are found regularly in the city centre near where I live. They are watched by the police, warned but not arrested, some of their comments are disgusting. It's mostly young left wing people who stand there and confront them.

trisher I was replying to a post which explained anti semetism in the Labour Party, if as said it’s because of the increase in party member numbers , it is new members who brought anti semetism into the party

POGS, in response to your post @ 00:07 today (10/03/19), the reason the complaints regarding anti-Semitism are higher among Labour MPs than complaints in regard to Islamophobia among Conservative MPs would be that there are a number on the Labour benches that have never accepted the election of Jeremy Corbyn as leader.

In that, anti-semitism has been used to undermine the Corbyn leadership and obstruct the clearly demonstrated democratic will of the of the Labour movement membership. Evidence to the foregoing can be witnessed in the actions of Margaret Hodge.

In the above, I believe that Hodge has submitted over two hundred anti-semitism complaints in her own name to the General Secretaries office which is obviously designed to overwhelm the system at the expense of the Corbyn leadership she is without doubt hoping. However, many are wondering how Hodge found the time to "thoroughly check out" all that number as anything like genuine before forwarding them to Jenney Formby's office.

In addition to the above, we now have the Hodge covert recording of the meeting she held with Jeremy Corbyn to discuss all those complaints. In that, words fail many in regard to the Hodge behaviour.

However, in the Tory party despite having had Fourteen counsellors and other senior members suspended or resign in recent weeks over their islamophobic actions, according to the leadership of the party there is still no problem, therefore no inquiry is necessary.

There is also evidence of Islamophobia having been rife in the Conservative Party for a considerable amount of time and at the very top of its structure. There was the invite by Tory MP Bob Blackman to Extremist Hindu preacher Tapan Ghosh to speak on his well-demonstrated Islamophobia within the Westminster parliament estate in 2017. However, no action was taken against Blackman, as the Chairman's office felt there was "no problem" with the preacher's invitation.

As the old adage states, "there is none so blind as those that do not wish to see."

Another old adage - first put your own house in order before pointing a finger at others .

Annie that adage could just as well apply to the CP in the context of islamophobia.

It could humptydumpty but I was replying to a Labour Party supporter and anti semetism is a problem in the Labour Party. We could say racism is in UKIP too, does change the fact that the Labour Party which has always fought racism now has racism in its midst

and so has the Tory party- aimed elsewhere. as confirmed by Andrew Marr this morning. Hunt's reply was so so wrong too.

Grandad

"would be that there are a number on the Labour benches that have never accepted the election of Jeremy Corbyn as leader.

In that, anti-semitism has been used to undermine the Corbyn leadership and obstruct the clearly demonstrated democratic will of the of the Labour movement membership. Evidence to the foregoing can be witnessed in the actions of Margaret Hodge. "
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You again confirm what has been said for 3+ years . Labour is no longer a Broad Church and the division is as clear as a pike staff.

Team A

There are those who accept the word and evidence provided by Labour MP's and Councillors , who for the record may or may not be Jewish, that there has been a significant rise of intimidation, bullying, harassment and antisemitism in the Party over the past 3 years.

Team B

Those who see it purely as a Blairite/Brown plot against Corbyn and the far left that surrounds him, the Labour MP's and Councillors are lying , it's a right wing press conspiracy. Team B are most probably new or ' returned ' Labour Members joining when Corbyn became Labour Leader. As you say with the increase of Labour Membership so did the number of allegation because percentage wise it was inevitable.

I repeat the words of EMILY THORNBERRY( on a good day) who was describing Team B in my opinion :-

". But I know as well, and we must all acknowledge, that there are sickening individuals on the fringes of our movement, who use our legitimate support for Palestine as a cloak and a cover for their despicable hatred of Jewish people, and their desire to see Israel destroyed.

“Those people stand for everything that we have always stood against and they must be kicked out of our party the same way Oswald Mosley was kicked out of Liverpool.”
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POGS, you never mention the Islamaphobia that is going on in the Tory party. Do you condemn the invitation to the extremist Hindu anti-Islamic preacher to speak in parliament?

Do you agree that the suspension or resignations of fourteen Conservative councillors in recent weeks gives evidence of widespread Islamaphobia in the Tory party?

In view of the above, do you believe that a full inquiry should be set up to investigate Islamaphobia in the Conservative party?

The Conservative Chairmans office has refused to bring forward any such investigation, no doubt afraid of divulging what they already have knowledge of.

Perhaps the Conservative party is not such a broad welcoming church, especially if a person is of the Islamic faith.

There should be no religion in our politics it courts divisiveness and eventual conflict. The fact that certain politicians hold certain religious beliefs should not bar them from office, but nor should they use their belief to promote or disprove any political action.

Grandad

"POGS, you never mention the Islamaphobia that is going on in the Tory party"
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If you read my posts I have not said Islamophobia or Antisemitism is not in ANY political party, Tory or Labour. As for talking about it I am happy to do so but the stories are few and far between and only just surfacing , unlike the accusations of bullying, intimidation, harassment and antisemitism which have been reported on a huge scale for over 3 years regarding Labour.
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" Do you agree that the suspension or resignations of fourteen Conservative councillors in recent weeks gives evidence of widespread Islamaphobia in the Tory party?"

I agree the Tory Party dealt with the issue quickly and it was obviously quite right to do so as there is no place in any political party for islamophic/antisemitic behaviour. I do not think that is evidence of widespread islamophobia in the party.
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" In view of the above, do you believe that a full inquiry should be set up to investigate Islamaphobia in the Conservative party? "

I don't find the numbers of factual/evidence based cases that have required resignation or suspension from the Tory Party to be remotely close to that of the Labour Party so at the moment I think I would say No. It may be the case that it transpires that it will however happen. The difference between myself and you Grandad is I would not be trying to shift the blame as a conspiracy if allegations were confirmed.
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"Perhaps the Conservative party is not such a broad welcoming church, especially if a person is of the Islamic faith."

Maybe , maybe not time will tell but we do know the truth about Labour because we have had the opportunity to witness the debates concerning antisemitism in Parliament that leave no room to deny it is a problem for Labour , we have heard and read the MP's / Councillors telling of their intimidation, harassment and antisemitic attacks for over 3 years , no matter how some deny the truth.