I am not a Christian, I was just trying to remind a few on here who trumpet on about their Christian values. Like a few decent others I too am thoroughly disgusted by some of the comments on here, truly vile. I am stepping down from this thread and will leave the racists and bigots and those with no compassion for a bereaved child to get on with it. For the record I am neither right wing nor left wing and I loathe ISIS.
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Shemima Begum
(494 Posts)LBC are reporting that SB lawyers are trying to verify that her new born son has died
same here GillT57 
I think SB stirs up emotions in us all, some bad and some good.
I cannot understand why she joined Daesh, but my heart aches for a 19 year old girl who has buried 3 babies.
She has to live with that every minute of every day for the rest of her life.
I do not know what’s going to happen to her, can she be rehabilitated? Will she always be a threat?
I am not sure that the UK should let other poorer countries keep our citizens because we do not want/are afraid to have them back.
Sorry trisher but I only feel sorry for those innocent people who can't help themselves.
SB didn't even have a British passport---it was her sister's.
Would you not have thought that SB would have applied for a British passport if she'd have had any intentions of staying here ?
Nobody held a gun to her head when she joined that tribe, she,with her friends went under their own volition. Are you telling me that at 14/15 she didn't know her own mind ?
Once the UK was a compassionate country, but for the last 30 years a culture of Me has emerged, if Me and Mine are ok, bugger the rest of them
Not only bugger the rest of them, but stamp on them to get what Me wants.
The more I read the vile and horrible things some people have posted on this thread, the easier I find it to be sorry for Shamima Begin, especially after the Michael Jackson program, which show how insidious grooming is and how completely taken in by it those groomed can be, not capable for some years, of recognising that what happened to them was grooming and abuse.
The best way to look at this is to say that ISIS is a cult, in the same way that the Jimmy Jones led cult, where their eponymous leader motivated them all to commit suicide in Guyana, or the Branch Dravidians, who died in a shoot out at Waco.
Shamima Begum was a child when she went to Syria, the age when others her age are groomed online and go to meet supposed boy/girl friends at distant railway stations, to find they are predatory adults. The age when pupils run off with teachers or their father's best friend or a neighbour because they have been careful groomed and think this older abusive person can offer them a perfect new live.
I am sure when the ISIS grooming process started there was no mention of beheadings and killings and one of the purposes of the skilful grooming, like people like MJ seems to have used, is that the vulnerable person is gradually led to accept the unacceptable, whether 'consenting' to physical abuse, because it is accepted as proof of 'love', to accepting that to reach a society which is an earthly paradise, some killing is regrettably necessary.
Many of the unpleasant remarks have been based on how she has behaved since she reached the refugee camp. Her vacant expressionless face, the way she seemed not to be relating to the child she had just given birth to, that others were sometimes holding for her. I believe that these are all symptoms of severe mental illness,probably something like a disassociative condition.
This mental illness is described as Dissociation is any of a wide array of experiences from mild detachment from immediate surroundings to more severe detachment from physical and emotional experiences. The major characteristic of all dissociative phenomena involves a detachment from reality. Dissociation is commonly displayed on a continuum. In mild cases, dissociation can be regarded as a coping mechanism or defense mechanisms in seeking to master, minimize or tolerate stress – including boredom or conflict en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychosis.
What I see in Shamima Begum is child who was lured into a cult out of which there was no escape once she was in it, and who has coped by completely dissasociating herself mentally from what is going on around her. Thus her indifference to what she saw.
If she does return to the UK, she is going to be inpatient in a mental hospital for a long time before she is even capable of being interviewed by the police, let alone being charged and appearing in court.
I have seen horrible comments on line about the baby. Whether or not the mother was responsible for her actions surely the death of a three week old baby is a tragedy. If we find it amusing or deserved we are as bad as the terrorists.
M0nica, I think you are absolutely right. S.B's general demeanour was quite strikingly odd, particularly her attitude to the baby! It was as if she had been programmed and was behaving accordingly. Looking at the photo of her before she went to Syria, and the pictures of her now, the difference is quite striking. I see her as a deeply traumatised young women in desperate need of help.
Deedaa, you have said what I was worried about saying. Are we any better than those we abuse, if we also lack the compassion that they too have lacked.
A very thoughtful post Monica. Thank you.
There are no " horrible comments ", just differences of opinion. Isn't that allowed ?
Perhaps you'd better form a petition to bring her back here, starting with a letter to the Home secretary, because that's what I'd do if I felt as strongly as you all do. I've put my name to many online.
As we speak there are 600,000 who've signed banning members of ISIS back into the country----so good luck with that ! No sign yet of one set up for SB !
How exactly do you think IS members can be "banned". If it wasn't so terrifying it would be funny.
Ban them to where???
So friggin colonial, we cant dump our problems on the likes of Australia any more you know
Where they already are ! Where they chose to be !
We could ask all people with British passports entering the UK who look a bit as if they might be of Arab descent "Are you or have you ever been a member of ISIS?" (I'm sure that would work wouldn't it?
)
If Syrian nationals were coming here reaking destruction we would expect to send them back to Syria
But it is BRITISH nationals going over to Syria killing Syrian nationals and ruining their peace so damn right they should be able to send them back here!!!!
I don't like the look of you, young swarthy man with a rucksack, you are banned. And you, young lady with a scarf and nice trainers, I don't care much for the cut of your jib
I reckon that would work just fine.
Yeh!!! Let's dump them on the poorest most war torn countries we can find. We could set up things so they could recruit a few more children and then give them all weapons (or sell some to the Saudis and they'll do it). After all we're not responsible for any of the mess out there are we?
I have no compassion whatsoever for that woman. None.
Anyone who supports an organisation, in this case, Isis who's sole intention is to destroy everything that we in the west hold dear can go and rot in hell.
Yes, those are differences of opinion and I am free to give my opinion, which is that the are vile and horrible
Are you telling me that at 14/15 she didn't know her own mind ? you might recognise that one and, if you read my long post above you will know my answer to that question.
I found it quite touching that Gabriella thought that all the grooming happened in pubs and clubs. It doesn't it happens online and I am sure that Shamima and her two friends were looking at things together, three young girls egging each other on and planning an adventure that probably felt like a wizard wheeze from an Enid Blyton book, but turned out to be catastrophic. We already know that the girl who was killed had rapidly become disenchanted and made it clear she wanted to go home, but was trapped. I believe Shamima's reaction, may have been similar and when she couldn't cope she became mentally ill. She certainly looks and behaves like someone who is traumatised and ill.
Of course I am sure there are some conspiracy theorists who will 'prove' that she spent all that time in her house with her sick children researching mental illness and practicing how to live it.
When Howard was Prime Minister of Australia he laid down a rule that if Muslims continued with their Islamic Sharia laws they were to get out of Australia. He made it very clear that extremists would be shown the door.
Which makes sense seeing that the government were targeting the radicals for fear of a terrorist attack.
Quite a sweeping generalisation Lily65
Yeh!!! Let's dump them on the poorest most war torn countries we can find. We could set up things so they could recruit a few more children and then give them all weapons (or sell some to the Saudis and they'll do it). After all we're not responsible for any of the mess out there are we?
And when the west treats the rest of the world with that sort of distain we cant act surprised when certain group decide to give us a taste of our own medicine 
Notanan2 we've presently got about 300 known terrorists living in this country----they've not been sent back from whence they came have they ?
I'm going to play Devil's Advocate here in asking you what sort of a life you think they have looking over their shoulders wherever they go ? This would be the same for SB if she returned here. How do you think she'll feel ? Would she ever feel free, or fear for her life every waking day ? She'd be a traitor to her own.
BTW, SB was groomed at a mosque in Whitechapel by a women's group.
Notanan2 we've presently got about 300 known terrorists living in this country-
How many of those are "home grown" brits.
And How many British terrorists are abroad?
"Terrorist" doesn't necessarily = "Foreigner"
British terrorists are Britains problem, fault & responsibility.
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