Scottish Independence

just the opposite here, somehow.

all of them.

I know quite a lot of Scots who no longer live in Scotland, so perhaps they should not be entitled to 'a view' on this.

I have not met one yet who agrees with independence and all loathe Sturgeon with a vengeance.

Why are we have this sort of thread?

Well, you are quite right- most of us are not Scottish - but we are still interested in Scotland and how Scottish people feel. It seems, sadly, that they are as divided as the rest of the UK- but I do feel the tide is turning.

Nicola had a huge success at the march today and her speech was really appreciated by all present.

I have absolutely no faith in the Scottish gov't having endured their attempts at running the country for more than 10 years. I similarly have no faith in data produced by business organisations with an independence agenda. We will not agree that independence is other than a daft notion.
I don't know why we keep having this sort of thread except to demonstrate to non Scottish grans that we're definitely not all fans of SNP.

Scotland is not and never has been subsidised Jane,there are Scottish accounts from as far back as the mid 19th century that show we pay far more in than we get back.The sad thing is people are taken in by the too wee too poor thing thats been spouted by WM for literally centuries. And they call US sheep!!Have faith in your country ,have a vision for its future we are without any doubt a very wealthy nation or we would be IF we weren't giving it all to our neighbour

www.businessforscotland.com/revealed-the-accounting-trick-that-hides-scotlands-wealth

Worth a read Jane.

Paddyann I'm sure you really believe all the stuff that you spout but, alas for you, there is another side to all this, the side where Scotland is subsidised and financially underwritten by the UK.
We can only agree to differ on Scottish 'independence'.

That is simply wrong chucky Scotland is paying through the nose to Westminster,we're paying £180 Million a year for Trident and a share of everything WM decides to spend on,including all those things that dont /wont benefit the people of Scotland .HS2 ,London sewers .London crossrail Big Ben refurb,They're using us as a dumping ground for nuclear waste and old subs .THEY run up the "national debt" more than doubled since labour left Downing St and we 're expected to pay a share of debts that aren't ours.HOW is that better financially together ?

Chuky of course our reduced pensions have nothing to do with Scottish Independence. All I have said is that previously I was totally in strong favour of the Union- but that now, I could not blame those who would like independence

But you chose to mix the two 'so really what has Scotland gaining independence matter to you, or Brexit for that matter. These are issues for the people living in these countries and who’s lives will be affected.'

And here I am entitled to reply that Brexit will affect us hugely- in 100s of ways. Our family is still in the UK, we also intended to go back to the UK at some point ... you stated- I replied.

Strangely enough, if the £ tanks further and we sell up here to return- we will make 60, 70% profit overnight.

jura2 I am sorry your pensions has reduced, however, I am much more concerned about how the 2 issues affect those of us who still live in Scotland, or on the broader issue the UK, rather than those who choose to move abroad! You are considerably luckier than most of us in that you have a choice on where you live, whereas most of us do not have that luxury and will have to muddle along whatever happens.

I voted Remain in both referendums and as I support democracy I expect both results to be adhered to. As I have already said, just because you dont get your own way in a referendum does not mean the result should be ignored!
With all that has happened since the EU referendum I now just want Brexit as soon as possible and would rather have a no deal than this continue to drag on, as the longer this issue goes on the longer it is until this country can move forward instead of being stuck in this uncertainty.

On the issue of finance, the UK is far stronger, both financially and otherwise if we stick together. I live in Southern Scotland and my area has seen some businesses close and relocate over the border in Cumbria or Northumberland. The issue of Scottish Independence and its uncertainty, has been a large factor in this.

thats not trueJabberwok the UK was only on the "wrong " side of a vote 74 times in 40 odd years ,thats pretty good odds ,nobody wins every time .Westminster wont wish us luck and wave us goodbye ..we bring too much to the table .Figues out today show that Scotland owns 34% of all UK Natural reserves thats a fair bit for 8% of the population .The EU makes just 5% of rules and laws for teh UK .Westminster is in control of around 80% of Scottish legislation .Thats a huge difference .We dont have to join ,we've already been told that as long as we gain Independence quickly it would be seamless as the rules and laws are already in place .England is a foreign land to me ,unlike Jane I dont think of myself as "british" That is not to say I'm anti English as I said before I have an English GD ,and loads of English born family who I love dearly .I just dont love their Parliament and how its run .

Bit like the EU paddyann! The UK's voice has been consistently overlooked for ??? years! that's why we want to leave, just like you wanting to leave the UK! The only difference is, that Westminster would wave you goodbye and wish you good luck no strings attached, whereas the EU is being as obstructive as possible and charging is a fortune! Still can't understand how independence = joining the EU?!! Not sure you'll find much independence there!

As a scot I don't see 'us' and 'them'. We are all British. We are represented at Westminster. We have had lots of Scottish PMs come to that. I don't hear complaints about that.

Gabriella England does rule itself..always has done,with 80+% of MP's being English the rest of us haven't a cats chance in hell of getting anything we want passed ..unless its in Englands interest .WE have no say on English matters which is right and proper ...but they have say in Scottish matters that wont affect them .Not my idea of democracy .

Chucky- if you re-read my posts, I totally agree Scottish independence has little or nothing to do with me - all I said was that Brexit has changed the situation and I could not blame Scotish peole if they chose to become independent. I also stated that I was a firm believer in the Union, until recently.

As for Brexit- I am sorry but it does affect both of us very much indeed- and in 100s of ways. OH has just served lunch, so if you want clarification - do ask and I'll get back to you later. Main issue of so many, is that we are totally dependent on our UK pensions in Sterling, which has gone down 50% in 10 years, and will probably tank even lower because of Brexit. Now if you think that is 'not being affected' - I'd liek to know how you would feel if your pension was cut by 50%, then 60%, then 70% ...? Would you feel 'unaffected'?

My point is jura2 you have chosen to leave the UK. Don’t blame you, Switzerland must be nearly as beautiful as Scotland. However my issue is that you no longer live in the UK, so really what has Scotland gaining independence matter to you, or Brexit for that matter. These are issues for the people living in these countries and who’s lives will be affected. Apologies for my thread saying “Scotland worth visiting”, cutting and pasting got a bit mixed up and did not mean to say that on this post. Problem with trying to respond on several different posts at once .

*jura2
Gower *Peninsula
Isles of Scilly

Crossed my mind yesterday as I was driving home - Trump will ask for massive things in return for any deal- we all know the NHS and lower husbandry welfare in agriculture and reduced workers' rights.

But perhaps there is more. He will probalbly want to use the UK as a military base in Europe (well sort of ) - if Scotland becomes independent - where will the nuclear bases move to?

Jane10 'Jura lives in Switzerland, so her concern must be about her property she has in England, whilst it looks like she doesn’t think Scotland are even worth visiting!!'

still does not make sense. My concern is not at all about our property in the UK (a 2 bed flat in a small market town) - why would I be worried about it? It has done well actually in the 10 years (wow - it is actually 10 days to the day I've just noticed) and up 40% in value. No worries there.

Scotland are not worth visiting??? Where does that come from??? We have visited only once, and would love to go again. The Trossachs and Isle of Mull, Skye, etc- looking for otters and white tailed eagle- wonderful. I went with friends to Aviemore skiing once too. When we lived in UK, we always spent out holiday near my elderly parents in Switzerland, and with them in France- and we went skiing in nearby France or Switzerland in cheap resorts- and parents came with us. I've visited the whole of the UK, apart from the Gower Pinsula (on top of my list with the Scily Isles) and Northumberland- also on the list - with a visit to the East coast of Scotland.

Yes, I live in Switzerland, after a lifetime working int he UK, with my British husband and children. Working very hard indeed- and now living in a very expensive country on a Sterling pension melting in the sunshine- NOT complaining, just saying. We moved to look after my very elderly parents.

Read previous posts jura. It'll make sense then.

Chuky, you totally lost me there ?!?

Oh well MaisieD seems you didn’t like it when thought thought was shown to be wrong!!!

Seems that responding to this has “completely passed you by.

MaizieD
“I thought you lived abroad and had abandoned this country?”

“Well, you know what thought thought, don't you?”

Well actually MaizieD Yes thought thought right!

“I have only visited Scotland as a tourist - so really cannot claim any knowledge or experience”

“I thought you lived in Switzerland jura2?”

“Yes, but we still have one very strong foot in England, and a property there- thank you.”

So guess that I’m at least right about that MaizieD.
This is a Scottish Referendum thread, Jura lives in Switzerland, so her concern must be about her property she has in England, whilst it looks like she doesn’t think Scotland are even worth visiting!!

Can I ask, before I reply, which referendum result is apparently tainted by illegality and cheating, Brexit or Scottish Independence?

MaizieD