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Scottish Independence

(315 Posts)
Urmstongran Fri 15-Mar-19 19:33:08

In 2014, a national referendum was held in Scotland. Voters were asked: "Should Scotland be an independent country?"

45% of voters answered yes and 55% answered no, with a turnout of 85%.

I am genuinely interested in the views now. How popular would independence be? After Brexit, is even the idea of a referendum flawed?

Cherrytree59 Fri 15-Mar-19 19:37:40

Urmsongran your feeling brave this evening grin

Jane10 Fri 15-Mar-19 19:46:27

There should never be another referendum without at least a 60% majority required. Just too divisive at 50%.

paddyann Fri 15-Mar-19 19:54:48

the numbers for Independence are rising by the day.You have to remember that many who voted NO did so because they were told staying in the union was the ONLY way to stay in the EU.Look how that turned out.over 60% of Scots voted remain in the Brexit referendum.Its natural for people to want to run their own affairs,or do YOU think handing over all your earnings and getting a % back is normal?
Would you want to run you life like that? Give the wifey next door your wages ,let her give you pocket money and spend the rest as she wants...and then she runs up debts and says they are in your name .That is in effect what Westminster does with us.Its time we took back control of our country,we may inhabit the same Island but we have very different attitudes to a lot of things ,for instance Scotland hasn't voted a majority of Tories into power since the mid 1950's yet we get them landed on us time after time .Its a very strange type of democracy when millions of people have no chance in hell of getting the government they want .I know DEVOLUTION you'll say ,well that only gives us a fraction of power with the great dictator in WM having the fianl say on what we do...yet WE get no say on anything ENGLISH ! Even on things where the outcome will affect us more than it does people south of the border ...the dumping of nuclear waste and old subs here or trident on our soil .It saddens me that the majority of people south of the border seem to think they OWN scotland and have more right to a say in what happens here than we do .I wont post on this thread again .I've had too much abuse in the past ,much like the daily abuse our ELECTED representatives get every day in the HOC.

Urmstongran Fri 15-Mar-19 19:56:27

I’m getting there Cherrytree ??

Honestly though I’m really interested to know the opinions of the Scottish GN’s. Some have alluded to the subject on other threads (I know the difference now!) but only as asides in another discussion.

Is the SNP popular? Is Brexit a factor?

Urmstongran Fri 15-Mar-19 20:01:00

No paddyann please do post. I think you might remember I understood your anger about it all. I said I’d be furious.

Is Scotland large enough in citizens to be independent?

Nanalex Fri 15-Mar-19 23:08:46

We live in Scotland. I was against a second referendum as divisive but it seems so unjust to deny the country their viewpoint.
This as we hear the duplicitous words from Westminster regarding Brexit. I am no fan of SNP, they are more like a Sect than a political party - the fervour generated would I believe carry them to a successful referendum result.

Granny23 Sat 16-Mar-19 00:10:24

You have to realise that support for Independence is not confined to members of the SNP although it is also worth noting that the SNP has the 2nd largest (after Labour) fully paid up membership in the UK, from a Scottish population of 5 million.

During the 2014 referendum a plethora of groups were set up under the YES umbrella - everything from Labour Members for Independence, through Grannies/ Rangers + Celtic supporters/NHS workers/Shepherds/ etc. etc for Independence. Some of these groups e.g. WFI (Women for Independence) and RIC (Radical Independence Campaign) and area based YES Groups, have remained active, not only campaigning but doing much good supporting foodbanks and other causes.

The Scottish Green Party is also firmly in favour of Independence and together with the SNP ensures a pro-Indy majority in the Scottish Parliament.

The impression given by the MSM i.e the BBC and all the Unionist Newspapers - (only the National is pro Independence) - is that support for Independence is low and everything the Scottish Government does is terrible but opinion polls show a different story with satisfaction with the Scottish Government, the Scottish Health Service, Education, ect. consistently showing higher satisfaction levels than those in the rest of the UK .

Recently statistics have shown that average wages in Scotland are higher than RUK, educational attainment likewise and NHS targets although set higher than those in E&W are more consistently met and so it goes on. Yet the public perception is that Scotland is too wee, too poor, too stupid to run its own affairs successfully, when the reality is that on most measures it is out performing the other nations and regions of the UK - and this with less than 1/3 of the powers devolved and under Scottish Control.

janipat Sat 16-Mar-19 01:49:58

paddyann, did you miss the bit where Scottish MPs were voting for very different things to affect England and Wales to what they were in Scotland? Oh of course, you posted and ran, so won't be replying to any comments on here. Bit like how you never responded to your conspiracy theory post that Westminster was responsible for the drones and incendiary letters. London doesn't vote Conservative either, and has way more citizens than the whole of Scotland, guess we should be shouting "foul" too!

Esspee Sat 16-Mar-19 02:31:53

My experience over the last few years is that many who voted for independence would, if asked to vote again, now vote against.
Many who voted for Independence also voted Leave, something that is largely ignored, so the simplistic assumptions of the SNP that Yes voters also voted Leave and will continue to support Independence is deeply flawed.

Lyndiloo Sat 16-Mar-19 04:46:19

paddyann You seem to forget that (for the moment) you live in a democracy. And a lot of what you say just doesn't ring true.
Scotland has more money per head than England, Wales, and Northern Ireland. The Scots have free University education, free care for the elderly, free prescriptions, etc. I think you're doing pretty well! (But the last time I looked, Scotland, since the devolution, were £80 billion in the red.) And Nicola Sturgeon earns more than Teresa May! So where your does your handing over all your money and getting nothing back come from?
I used to want Scotland to stay a part of the UK - for emotional reasons mainly. But lately, have changed my mind. I think the rest of us may just be richer without Scotland clinging to our coat-tails.
So have another referendum and go!
But please don't expect the UK to pick up your tabs!

SueH49 Sat 16-Mar-19 05:12:26

Can Scotland afford to be independent or would they still want/need (foreign) aid/contribution from the UK? IMO independence means going it alone with one's own financing.

Jane10 Sat 16-Mar-19 06:35:38

No Scotland can't manage without UK support and not just financial support. UK is our single biggest market, far larger than the EU. However, there's almost no point in mentioning this to diehard SNP fans who just will not hear reason, economic or otherwise. They make a lot of noise but the quiet majority is for remaining in the Union as indicated in the last independence referendum.

Anja Sat 16-Mar-19 07:56:06

Would Scotland not trade with the U.K. should they gain Independence?

GabriellaG54 Sat 16-Mar-19 07:57:20

I wish all those North of the border would just leave if that's what they want.
I'm sick of their moaning.
If you think you'll do better then go, don't just talk about it.
You've been yarking on about the unfairness of it all so why then isn't a larger majority voting for independence...or are you suggesting that even with an 85% turnout and 55% voting to stay within the UK, that those voting that way have not been properly appraised of the facts?
Please rally the dissenters and just go. I wish you all the best.

Poppyred Sat 16-Mar-19 08:09:15

It’s inevitable that Scotland will gain its independance sooner or later. Good luck to you although I don’t agree. I’m Welsh and would never vote to stand alone if we had a chance to do this. I think we are stronger as an United Kingdom.

MaizieD Sat 16-Mar-19 08:20:00

In what way are we 'stronger' as a United Kingdom, Poppy?

I'd be perfectly happy for Scotland to become independent (but not in the nasty 'can't wait to get rid of you' sense expressed by some small minded posters) and would wish them every success.

Poppyred Sat 16-Mar-19 08:29:19

I just feel that it would be a great shame to break up the United Kingdom - strength in numbers I suppose. I am Welsh but also very proud to be British.

Anniebach Sat 16-Mar-19 08:38:42

That would be the end of The Triple Crown ?

rascal Sat 16-Mar-19 08:45:41

I am Scottish through and through. I voted to leave the E U. I want us to stay in the UK. NO to Scottish independence. thistle

Urmstongran Sat 16-Mar-19 09:06:44

As someone who voted to Leave the E.U. I can fully appreciate Scotland voting for their own independence!

That said, I remember Alex Salmond saying the referendum was a once in a generation thing and it garnered a huge turnout with a decently wide margin.

So what has sparked the SNP into wanting another referendum please?

jura2 Sat 16-Mar-19 09:16:03

I have only visited Scotland as a tourist - so really cannot claim any knowledge or experience- but I find Nicola very convincing, and Mhairi too, in a very different way. This is what Nicola said recently- and it does resonate:

jura2 Sat 16-Mar-19 09:16:24

btw, where are the Scottish Tories these days???

MaizieD Sat 16-Mar-19 09:18:58

So what has sparked the SNP into wanting another referendum please?

Basically, Urmstongran, your vote to leave the EU.

gillybob Sat 16-Mar-19 09:21:12

btw, where are the Scottish Tories these days???