"You cannot betray the six million people"

MaizieD you are now wriggling out of your earlier statement.If it’s the point that things have changed for Leave voters, and have also changed for Remain voters as you say........then there is no point.

Oh, for heaven's sake., lemon. At no point did I say that there were now fewer than 17.4 million Leave voters. Just that the demographic has changed, with an illustration of how it has changed, and the original 17.4 million no longer existed. Maybe I should have added that there could well be new Leave voters but I really thought that would be obvious.

Clearly not.

What is the matter with some Leave voters, why refusal to countenance another referendum?

Issues are clearer apart from dodgy issues around the p2016 referendum. We hold elections every 5 years (now), should we stop doing that and keep the same government so we're not voting repeatedly on the same thing?

Its not 6 Million votes its 6 million Email accounts.

If you stray over MN you will see on some Brexit threads where MNers say it perfectly legal for their children with email accounts to sign petition, as there is no where on the petition which actually states you have to be over 18 to sign.
Or indeed over any age.

It’s not other posters lack of comprehension skills MaizieD......it’s just your muddled thinking.

Well said Gabriella??

MaizieD you are now wriggling out of your earlier statement.If it’s the point that things have changed for Leave voters, and have also changed for Remain voters as you say........then there is no point.
This whole ‘ leavers have died’ thing is just an unpleasant comment that some poster enjoy tipping into the mix.
Plenty of Remain voters will have died in the last three years too.

Perhaps you could make your meaning clearer MaizieD

I'm trying, Jalima but people's apparent lack of comprehension skills is working against me.

That statement does not claim that there are fewer Leave voters now. It just illustrates that the composition of the original 17.4 million has changed. That is the point I am trying to make. The original 17.4 million no longer exists its entirety. Whether there are more or fewer Leave voters now I have no idea. Though the polls seem to be indicating the latter.

The same points hold true for the 16.1 million Remain voters, too.

But, I’m very uncomfortable with the way remainers are trying to overturn the referendum result because it inconveniences them personally.

It has nothing to do with personal inconvenience. It has everything to do with the fact that the referendum was tainted by illegality and cheating, as has been pointed out many times on this forum. That it was corrupted has even been acknowledged by the PM, a fact also pointed out several times on this forum.

The 'personal inconvenience' mantra is just an accusation made to gee up Leavers and is not grounded in fact. To paraphrase Leavers' own constantly repeated statement 'No-one knows exactly why 16.1 million Remainers voted the way they did'.

Crystal you said "I still can’t undestand how holding another referendum on enhanced knowledge is deemed “undemocratic”. If Leavers believe their ideas are so evidently correct, the result should be a landslide in the favour of leave. Then there would be no further debate." I agree, I've been asking Leave voters that for a very long time but not one has answered me.

G23 I've deleted mine but I think the first one was the 'Government Response' which told us we would still leave and the second one was to tell us that it would be debated on 1st April. Oh the irony!

Would you like to post the bit in my posts where I explicitly state that the 17.4 is now fewer in number?

On the other hand, the whole 17.4 million who voted Leave no longer exist. A considerable number of voters have died since casting their votes and a considerable number of young people have come of voting age and are now registered.



Perhaps you could make your meaning clearer MaizieD

G23, I thought this was weird too. It seems to show the level of confusion that we're getting used to.

Anyone else who signed the petition had 2 e.mails? One saying that the petition will not be debated and one saying that it will be debated on Monday?

MaisieD
I think you've been at the sherry.
Your statement about 17.4m being fewer in number now than in 2016 due to huge numbers dying in the meantime and huge numbers of young people reaching voting age.

I think you need to learn to read,*GG54*, as do all the posters who have supported you.

Would you like to post the bit in my posts where I explicitly state that the 17.4 is now fewer in number?

jura2

I haven’t once indicted which way I voted or whether I voted at all.
But, I’m very uncomfortable with the way remainers are trying to overturn the referendum result because it inconveniences them personally.
The referendum result was far more legitimate than a dubious online petition, yet remainers are holding up that petition as if it’s the word of god.
It’s all nonsense.
The referendum result must be respected for all our sakes.
How can we preach ‘democracy’ around the world when we overturn the wishes of our own people?
And no, rich remainers organising well orchestrated campaigns & marches to overturn a democratic decision - becomes they just don’t like it - is not democracy.

I agree with your points GG it would appear generally that no remainers died during this period, magic elixir indeed.

www.facebook.com/adigitalrecruit/videos/10157234738043223/

Margaret Beckett will say it better than me Kandinsky- circumstances and promises made during the (fraudulent campaign full of lies) have changed totally- the only reason you don't want a confirmatory vote, is because you know so many people have changed their mind.

What are you scared of?

Couldn’t believe he actually said that.
But it’s ok to betray 17 million people.

And he’s the person we’re negotiating with

yggdrasil

Have you never commented on why Leavers voted as they did.?

You say you don't know but I voted Remain and 'some' Gransnet posters, journalists, commentators have ' told' me it was because they were uneducated, racist, xenophobic, from areas where they have nothing and voted against the government as a protest vote.

As a I voted Remain I wonder where I sit in the ' game' as I have RSA English and Typing but according to Remain voters that makes me superior, intelligent.

POGS: Funny how on practically every Brexit related thread Remain voters know why Leave voters voted as they did.

I don't. I have never had a clear explanation from any Leaver, except re immigration. Otherwise they quote fake news from the media and get annoyed when you refer them to accurate data.

There is a different dynamic now and people are far more clued up than before. Anyway it would only be advisory wouldn't it? Nothing to fear from knowing how the voters feel now. True democracy can accommodate people changing their minds.

lindyloo demographics of voting behaviour have established that older people were more likely to vote leave, also linked to educational level and by region. Not a belief - fact. These are correlations not causation, so other variables also considered. You don’t have to ask every single person in a given population to determine a statistical variation. Can give you a link to the statistics and how they are established if you are doubtful.

I still can’t undestand how holding another referendum on enhanced knowledge is deemed “undemocratic”. If Leavers believe their ideas are so evidently correct, the result should be a landslide in the favour of leave. Then there would be no further debate.

Yes, many 'Leavers' have died since 2016, but so have many 'Remainers'.

There is a general belief that older people voted 'Leave' and younger people voted 'Remain'.

This is not FACT, it is only a BELIEF.

Your vote is anonymous. Your age and gender does not appear on your ballot paper. You are a number.

And nobody could ever convince me that there is an army of civil servants going through every, single, ballot paper to link-up the number to the age of the voter. That would take years!

A second referendum would be an insult to all UK voters - unless 'Remain' was not an option. We've already voted on that!

MaisieD
I think you've been at the sherry.
Your statement about 17.4m being fewer in number now than in 2016 due to huge numbers dying in the meantime and huge numbers of young people reaching voting age.

Have all remainers been allocated some magic elixir of life?
What is their secret?
Do tell me, are leavers dropping like flies?
You're making a very uneducated assumption that all young people who are now eligible to vote, would vote to stay in the EU.
That's a mighty brazen call.
Are no remain oldies dying?
Do you have pollsters at the cemetery gates who demand to know whether the deceased was a stayer or a goer?
Don't be so blooming ridiculous.
You cite instances and quote inaccurate facts at random to suit your purpose.
Tell me the number of deaths of those who voted leave in 2016 and tell me how many who voted remain, have since died.
While you have your economics hat on, tell me how many young people have attained the age of 18 since 2016 and would vote remain and the numbers for who would vote leave.
Concrete evidence please. Not links to someone elses words.

No, you don't, Jalima.

What I'm saying is that the electorate is no longer the same as that which voted on 23rd June 2016. Just as the river you step into a second time will have different water in it. It's no good Leavers saying that 17.4 million people will be furious if we don't leave (which they frequently do) because that particular number no longer exists. Some have died and some have changed their minds.