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Another petition for those who care about honesty in a democracy

(48 Posts)
MaizieD Sun 31-Mar-19 11:04:47

So, the 'Revoke' petition has hit the 6 million mark grin

Here's another for concerned citizens to sign, calling for a public inquiry into the corrupted EU Referendum:

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/241848/

Let's get it moving

lemongrove Sun 31-Mar-19 11:07:10

Come on varian.......where are you?😜

Nonnie Sun 31-Mar-19 11:14:55

I do hope this thread won't turn into more unpleasantness. Can't we just keep it open and not be sarcastic? Does it really need comment?

MaizieD Sun 31-Mar-19 11:33:23

The petition needs signing.

EllanVannin Sun 31-Mar-19 11:51:39

We'll never get transparency in politics.

paddyann Sun 31-Mar-19 11:57:44

we dont need another petition we need another GUY FAWKES !! Westminster is the laughing stock of the world ...

MaizieD Sun 31-Mar-19 12:09:00

I'd rather do it legally, paddyann grin

Caledonai14 Sun 31-Mar-19 12:56:54

Legally, peacefully and entirely with the pen (well, keyboard) not the sword, as we are all doing here whichever way we choose. Thank you Maizie.

vigdis Sun 31-Mar-19 13:03:29

smile Hello - my first post. I'm in two minds... a dedicated Remainer but, 'Leave' did unfortunately poll more votes and that fact cannot be ignored, nor the Leavers ridden roughshod over. Regardless of my personal opinion, DC did say (foolishly I believe) that he would abide by the result and that is a fact. Which just goes to prove how little he understood or connected with the ordinary 'man in the street' on whom he and his government imposed their ideological Austerity impoverishing a heck of a lot of people.
... who then decided to give him a good kicking. And here we are.
But is there any point in a public enquiry as suggested by the OP? It was an Advisory Referendum - regardless of Call-Me-Dave's promise and therefore not subject to the same legislation as a Binding Referendum. Will this enhance the Remainer cause, or persuade any Leavers that they were duped? Will it help us to get out of this hole that has been dug for us?
And to the person suggesting a modern day Guy Fawkes as the solution - do you really think killing people is the right means to an end? I saw a comment in one of the tabloids recently on an article about the last march in London asking "where is ISIS when you need them?"... Is it a good idea to promote violence, even in jest, in such a volatile environment?

Caledonai14 Sun 31-Mar-19 13:25:49

Several very good discussion points there Vigdis. Great first post. smile

Urmstongran Sun 31-Mar-19 13:30:44

Whatta mess this has turned out to be.
A referendum that was only advisory but the voters weren’t told that by David Cameron.
A result that Theresa May is determined to ‘deliver’ on to preserve faith (ha!) in the Conservative Party, even though ‘her’ Brexit Deal is toxic and tomorrow’s indicative vote choice will be worse than staying in!
The Conservatives have boxed themselves in.
Labour continue to sit on the fence.
Voters don’t know who to trust anymore.
We can’t get out of the EU with any integrity.
We are told Remain is now better than trying to Leave.
Experts on both sides cannot agree.
What chance do us, the general population, have?
Who to believe?

Overthehills Sun 31-Mar-19 13:48:36

Thanks for your first post vigdis - interesting points made. And no, of course killing people is not the answer - not for most of us on here anyway ...

vigdis Sun 31-Mar-19 14:13:34

Urmstongran
Your dismay is palpable! Not surprising though.
The problem from my POV is that those who are making the mighty decisions on this issue (and others) are mostly not part of the 'every-day' world that we inhabit. They live in a rarified, cocooned environment of Westminster and Politics. I believe the likes of PM May 'understand' the electorate - and their needs / wishes - only through the headlines of the (largely) tabloid press. And it is to these headlines that she responds, and plays. Do these 'pollies' have the faintest idea of the lives of ordinary people, do they even have the worries or burdens that many of us have to face every day? I doubt they are bothered with money worries, or health-care issues (they might have health problems, but they can afford private care).
Their world revolves around Party - and the politics that support that party (whichever stripe).
We don't have any Statesmen or Stateswomen - we have mediocre, intellectually-challenged, self-serving career politicians. So what good will it do to vote for any of them?
... which is basically what you are saying.
Maybe, as they have made such a complete mess of Brexit we underlings should make the decisions for them. Cards on table, I am a Remainer, but how about we Leavers and Remainers, decide which form of Brexit we deliver - there must be enough of us able to be sufficiently dispassionate to do what is in the best interests of ALL? I still think Brexit is a bad idea, but - we are where we are.

vigdis Sun 31-Mar-19 14:22:44

@Caledonail4
@ Overthehills

Thank you both for the welcome thanks

MaizieD Sun 31-Mar-19 14:24:58

But is there any point in a public enquiry as suggested by the OP?

The point, IMO, is that some of the Leave campaign groups acted illegally, which taints the result and makes it, in legal terms, unsafe. Even if an inquiry has no effect on the result it will point the way to ensuring that in the future campaigns are run honestly and openly. It seems to me to be truly overthrowing democracy if results can be obtained by cheating and by allowing voters to be targeted by 'dark adverts' which give them information which can only be seen by them, and which can influence them, without any other person or campaign group being able to counter that information, because they don't know what people are being told.

All campaign information should be available for all voters to read or watch. Whether they do read or watch it is another matter, but that's then up to them.

Lily65 Sun 31-Mar-19 14:38:08

Whatta mess this has turned out to be

I agree UG. But when I have expressed anything other than unbridled joy and optimism I have been mocked and demeaned. I am not a Remainer. First and foremost I am a person. I have friends on both sides. I am so sad for this country, brought to its knees by right wing egotists. Oh and before anybody retorts, I can't be doing with some aspects of Labour either.

paddyann Sun 31-Mar-19 14:43:08

vigdis we obvioulsy have a different sense of humour,I apologise if it offended you.Of course it was said jokingly ,as an ardent Scottish Nationalist we'd rather do things legally too ,thats why the SNP are holding off for now ,we'll get our majority when the time is right .

vigdis Sun 31-Mar-19 16:58:21

@paddyann
I didn't think you were actually serious! I might even have said something similar among friends.
I think my concern is that I have come across some pretty nasty comments - and veiled threats - on Facebook (yeah, I know, sup with devil... and all that) which can't all be dismissed as jokes or 'heat of the moment' remarks.
One particular person said that the murde of Jo Cox was her own fault for "pushing her agenda." I find that quite alarming - especially amidst all this talk of "betrayal" and regarding people as "traitors" ... not to mention the loudmouth who proclaimed that if the Tories tried to extend Art 50... they would make the French "yellow vests" protest "seem like f**** tea party".
Maybe I am being too sensitive admittedly, but there are some extemists out there - using Brexit as a scapegoat, and in a climate of hate (from both sides) I fear for the safety of anyone publicly declaring their allegiance.
... so, not offended, just... worried!

MaizieD Sun 31-Mar-19 17:06:26

I rather think they're all mouth and no trousers, vigdis. Weren't we told that there were going to be some 'surprises' at the Leavers' demo but all we got was some bad-tempered jostling and shoving?

quizqueen Sun 31-Mar-19 17:19:54

If Parliament decides that we stay in some sort of Customs Union then Mrs May will go down in history as the Prime Minister who betrayed democracy held so dear by the British people and who destroyed her own party. Surely, no one who voted for Brexit will ever vote for the Tories again, which means a Corbin led Labour government. God (if believed in him ) help us.

vigdis Sun 31-Mar-19 17:35:49

... well MaizieD, that made me laugh "all mouth and no trousers"... using my imagination...
The jostling and shoving seems par for the course, but I'm concerned about some of the bitter hostility on FB, it's far and above anything I've come across previously.
I'm detecting pent up anger and hatred on an unhealthy level. I cannot just dismiss it. I've been confronted with a red-faced, spittle-flecked political 'opponent' (not Brexit related) from the hard-right once, a couple of years ago, the hatred was visceral. I cannot forget that such people exist, and are 'driven' by whatever cause they get behind.
If MPs are getting scared of the mob, then I do think there's cause for oncern.

MaizieD Sun 31-Mar-19 17:58:14

Mrs May will go down in history as the Prime Minister who betrayed democracy held so dear by the British people

The betrayal of democracy was by the Leave campaigns which broke the law and cheated in order to win at all costs.
So let's have another, clean, vote to find out what the public really wants.

Cindersdad Mon 01-Apr-19 09:02:40

Signed and shared on FB.

varian Tue 09-Apr-19 15:04:09

Brexit will suck the life out of British politics for another 10 years, ex-Tory Minister Lord Willetts warned on LBC.

www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/shelagh-fogarty/brexit-row-last-10-years-ex-tory-minister/

pinkquartz Tue 09-Apr-19 18:42:31

It has to be better to stay in for now and then vote out our idiotic House of Commons. If no-one votes them they will lose their jobs.

i would like to remain in the EU and then revisit the decision in a couple of years.
There is no way we knew what was the right choice back in 2016.
What we do know now is that we cannot trust any M.P. that we now have.