another transgender surprise.

This subject goes completely over my head.
The only thing I find interesting wrt this issue, is that feminists are now all at sea politically with no real allies apart from the right wingers who they can’t stand.

More acceptance means more acceptance of everyone as an individual

Great. You are a self proclaimed cis woman. I am not. And you accept this?

Trisher the people who WORK in our national gender clinic are quitting and saying they are doing harm not good.

Listen to trans detransitioners

Listen to gender clinic workers

Harm is being done!

www.transgendertrend.com/lesbian-detransitioner-must-question-primary-solution/

& what about the disproportionate amount of autistic children who get referred. A group who find puperty disproportionately difficult anyway

Why are they being missdiagnosed as transgender rather than having autism specific puberty support?

www.transgendertrend.com/letter-to-young-trans-people/

Trisher what about the mental health issues that arrise when it turns out that puberty blockers are not the magic beans they promised to be trisher?

pinkquartz Giving children puberty blockers does harm drug and alcohol abuse and suicide attempts does even more.

I don't care if the word woman comes from "of men" Sorting out the language is ok....no-one gets hurt that way.
Giving children puberty blockers does harm

I have no strong feelings about someone self identifying until they want to enter a female only space. that sounds off to me.

I seem to be of a similar mind as notanan..........glad that I had time to grow up without being pushed into thinking I might be trans.... I can also imagine things the opposite way for boys who are not very macho. Men come in different ways and so do women.
if the Trans community is pushing us to be more defined then they are making a dangerous mistake.

I am curious about Trans women wanting to dress female.....as a woman who didn't want to it puzzles me?

We should be more accepting of people dressing as people, gender non specific, not extra pigeon holes and boxes to stuff people into.

The problem is notanan2 that you identify other people's problems as being equivalent to your own and the small, if personally significant, struggles you have had, as the same as someone who positively knows they are in the wrong body and have the wrong gender. There is such a wide spectrum of behaviour that to condemn someone to more pain because you feel their experiences are much the same as yours, and therefore given time they might grow out of it (equally they might committ suicide, but that's another story) is simply to say their pain isn't worth considering as real.
Of course their are people and always will be people who will not conform to stereotypes and they are perfectly free to do so. But to imagine that their rights are somehow infringed because a smaller and persecuted group are demanding acceptance is to conflict the issues. More acceptance means more acceptance of everyone as an individual and once you accept people as individuals then all expectations of conformity to a norm disappear.
I think most of us struggled with the trappings and conformity demanded from women when we were younger. I certainly did but I never woke up thinking I had the wrong body and, apart from a brief period when I would much rather have been a horse, I have always been comfortable, if not happy with my body.
So what should you call me? Well you see I simply think it doesn't matter I will be a cis woman if that makes it easier to define me, I will accept woman in spite of its links to patriarchy, I will even accept womxn or womyn (although in the last case I will not be responsible for inspecting genitalia to make sure no trans women are involved.)
I simply think acceptance, consideration and tolerance are far more important than any terms and that ensuring people can live happy and fulfilled lives is the duty of a civilised society.

I see notanan2 ??
I do worry that children and young teenagers are being pushed into ‘choosing’ at far too young an age how to view themselves.
In the recent past, it may well have been a struggle ( as it was for you) but you had time to grow up and know yourself first.

I got to be called a tomboy. Which was fine. Because you can be a girl and a tomboy.

Nobody suggested that I might not be a "real" girl at all.. because of the toys I chose.

Had that idea been planted in my head at 5/6 I might have thought "hey, if the adults want me to say Im a boy so I can like/do these things...I will say Im a boy!". Children aim to please the adults around them after all.

We are going backwards not progressing!

Lemongrove it mainly interests me because I believe that as the teen that I was, had I been offered a way to opt out of a lot of the bull that goes along with being a teenage girl, I would have wanted to believe it could be done. It cant. You cant identify away from mysogyny. Transmen face the same hurdles that all other natal women do, along with some extra ones!

But the pipe dream is appealing..as a teen who bound her breasts (mainly to avoid unwanted attention from older men!), was attracted to females as well as males, and "acted up" against being pigeon holed into feminine steriotypes, I THANK MY LUCKY STARS that I got to go through my teens then, and not now.

Had someone told me that my discomfort with my place in society, and my developing (sexualised) body, could be alieviated with a pill.... I would have taken it!!

I am SO GLAD that puberty blockers were never suggested to me during that time.

I wasnt in the wrong body, society was wrong, and my discomfort about that was internalised.

notanan2 you certainly are well aquainted with this subject, have you just read up on it or is it part of your job to know these things?
Am impressed, as I have very little knowledge of this ( to most of us) new subject, but from what little I have read, think it’s being made a minefield by activists out to pounce on every small transgression ( if you will pardon the pun) made by bewildered people, when discussing all that is ‘trans’.

& why do we all have to have a "gender"? & can we just chose to not?

How do I find out what gender I am?

If it is being appointed to me, what criteria did I meet?

Thanks

Trisher I am actually intetested in what YOU think:

Do you think people should be allowed to chose their gender?
If so, why are you allocating us a gender?
What do you think gender is?
And why do you consider most transpeople to be cis (by your own definition)?

this worries me. I was a real tom boy and i never did girly girl.
There was a time when a young teen that I worried I wasn't a real woman cos I did not like what women were supposed to like. eg make up clothes, soppy stuff.......
I don't want other girls to be told that might mean they might be trans......I could have been pushed into that.
As I grew older and society changed being who I am is fine. I fit in as myself.

I think of myself as a person first and a woman second. I am a mum and a grandmother.

This trans thingy is getting very strange......

Read Paris Lees on the subject. She doesn't use it but recognises it can be useful.
www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jun/25/cis-oxford-english-dictionary-gender-transgender-hair-salon-test
I use it. I don't have a hairdresser

I have never met a cisperson in real life. Im not saying cis-gendered feeling people dont exist. Just that it is not a term you can apply broadly

Cisgender basically means that you retain the genitalia you were born with.

You do realise that you are calling most transpeople cis-gendered there dont you?

Which is IT.

And no I do not believe that cis is useful beyond a very small amount of people who CHOSE to call themselves cis gender. This does not encompass all non trans people.

Trisher you cant have it both ways: saying people should be allowed to chose their gender, and also saying that non trans people should have cis gender alocated to them.

Which is is?

I fail to understand what you mean by that last post notanan2 are you acknowledging that the two terms are useful? Are you saying that I attribute more to them than the basic -cis -birth genatalia, trans- chosen gender?
I know thathere is a wide range of behaviour and preferences in human behaviour I suggest you read Paris Lees on the subject. It's too long to post here. But she says it so accurately
www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jun/25/cis-oxford-english-dictionary-gender-transgender-hair-salon-test
Not having a hairdresser to test it on I'm happy to use Cis

"Anything else is purely a social construction that nn2 has chosen to put upon it."

n-no... I am OPPOSED to the social contructs of gender roles and gender expectations.

It was you that was allocating genders to all of us who happen to not be trans: cis gender! Remember?
... then you refuse to define gender..
.... but you also celebrate how progressive itbis to tell children to chose their own genders.. when you wont even quantify what it means!

Gabriella..18.34..?