another transgender surprise.

I am struggling to understand most of this now and have only ever heard of Cis, as the initials of the Construction Industry Scheme You can telephone HMRC if you want any assistance with it !

Why do we even need a word to describe being a natural man or woman? I just don't get it.

It's nothing to do with how you dress notanan simply of what your body was when you were born. You can wear what you like.

Would you like to give some evidence of places where any of that is actually happening notanan2? Or is it just a figment of an overactive imagination. Having worked in primary schools with staff who certainly wouldn't and in fact couldn't meet any of the strereotypes you suggest. With gay teachers of both genders who liked what they liked, with women who went rock climbing and whose ambitions were to drive formula one cars and men who went to the opera and ballet I can't see any of them projecting your stereotypes onto any child. In fact what they mostly do is support children who are quite obviously different to others and teach other children to accept those differences. It's what real education does. Opens minds to accept others who are different.

Your categorising EVERYONE as either cis or trans Trisher, leaves no room for men who like dresses, women who dont etc

You are also denying the existance of self identifying transvestites, transexuals and gynaphills.

They are not Cis. They also do not self identify as female women they self identify as males who like dresses or have cross dressing fetishes.

What is so wrong with a MAN in a dress trisher?

You are basically telling boys that if they arent Cis, i.e. steriotypically masculine/matcho, then maybe they are not boys at all. Because thats whats on offer: cis or trans.

Dont you see how damaging the concept of a Cis man is to men. It litetally means born male AND matcho. And by categorising people as either cis or trans, you are presenting that as the only way to be a "real" man!

It is toxic to everyone. Including many transpeople, who do not deny their biological sex!

The only gender stereotypes around are the ones you choose to accept and most young people know this

Young girls. PRIMARY school girls, are being told that if they like boys toys and boys clothes, that might mean they are transboys

Sending the message that it is not in the remit of normal behaviour for girls.

They are also told that boys who lile dresses and dolls ARE girls..... because thats what makes one a girl???

This is EVERYTHING to do with gender steriotypes.

There are people diagnosing their TODDLERS as trans because they are making choices outside of gender steriotypes.

You see this is why it's not worth discussing stuff with you all. It isn't just to do with women. There are also cis men and trans men. OK they are not as numerous but they exist and shouldn't be ignored and it is the term used to designate anyone whose gender matches the one they were born with. It is used by scientists. It is useful and it isn't just about women.

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that would be ridiculous..

Are menopausal women who take HRT more female than their counterparts wjo dont take HRT?

No! Not even a little bit.

Transwomen have MALE medical predispositions. They are part of the male cohort if looking at medical risk.

SOME (by no means all by a long shot) transwomen take artificial hormones. This does not make them female. It does not make their bodys female. It does not change their biological sex. They may be part of subset of the male cohort as maybe steroid users may be. But would DISASTEROUSLY invalidate any medical study if they formed ANY part of the female cohort.

Women are not just oestrogen and flippin frocks!

Medical research should be exempt from the kool aid. Women and females do not share a biological sex with transwomen. They share a biological sex with transmen.

trisher I’m sorry but I don’t accept that it’s a word used by scientists - it’s a word that’s been hijacked by TRA to make women disappear. It also aligns sex with gender, confuses the two, and promotes dreadful female gender stereotypes. If we need to differentiate between natal women and trans women then let’s use those words. I’m sick to death of the TRA and their hatred of natal women.

Scientists have perfectly adequate biologically accurate language to use already.

Women/females.
Transwomen or trans identifying males.

There is nothing factually or biologically or scientifically accurate about the term Cis.

Gender stereotypes have nothing to do with this. It is entirely a red herring being used to dismiss the term "cis" which was and is a term used by scientists to distinguish between people who are born women and people who choose to become women. who are known as "trans" women. Suppose for example there was medical research into osteoporosis and some anomalies were found, if this could be related to the involvement of 'trans' women and was not evidenced in the 'cis' women involved, it might be very valuable information.
The only gender stereotypes around are the ones you choose to accept and most young people know this.

It means you match the gender steriotypes which have been assigned to your birth sex.
Who decides on these stereotypes?
Who says what is and isn't feminine or masculine?

As far as I can see, it has got worse over the last few years with children's toys being even more stereotyped and the colour pink taking over everything for little girls.
For instance my DC didn't have girls' or boys' Lego - they just had Lego.

Me neither...nor do I want to. It's not part of my daily life indeed, I don't actually know any one who fits those descriptions.
That's just one of those things.
I probably move in stereotypical circles.

I feel I’m living in a parallel universe where I don’t even understand the language.
?

Very true Notanan2.

And that's me for tonight, I'm turning in. It has been an interesting discussion, thanks.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/parents-in-revolt-as-councils-issue-schools-with-transgender-toolkits-j2tzk3kq0

And nothing on your second list makes you less of a woman either.

Although trans theory being taught to girls in schools these days says otherwise..

Indeed. And IMO men can do all but 1 of the things on your first list.

Behaving "femme" does not a woman make

On reflection then, I might have to re-evaluate whether I actually do relate to cis ...

I was born female
I like wearing make up and perfume
I was a dancer and loved expressing my femininity through dance
I love a good 'chick flick'
I love anything glittery
I make a boss cupcake!

all stereotypically female. So far so good.

BUT

I had a buzzcut hairstyle until I turned 30
I hate the colour pink
I drink pints
I wear trousers/jeans and hate skirts/dresses
I can change a wheel on my car

You know what ... we are who we are!