another transgender surprise.

I am worried that the 'debate' around transgender issues is being stifled because of fears about genuine discussion and observations being labelled as 'hate crimes'. I think that when legitimate (in my view) reporting of doctors' concerns is challenged as being 'transphobic' there is something very wrong.
blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/04/it-is-now-transphobic-to-report-doctors-fears-about-trans-childrens-health/

I agree grannyactivist.
I would love to know the legal criteria for ' hate crimes'.
and reasons why this has become such an issue, especially for transgender people.

notanan2 you are entitled to call yourself what you wish. Just as scientists are entitled to cal you a cis-woman if you are involved in any research they conduct and after all "What's in a name?"
Grannyactivist I think stifling debate is always worrying. However I wonder about these children having seen children (mostly boys but a couple of girls) who exhibited what might be termed behaviour which didn't match their gender I do worry for them. Whatever is or is not prescribed for them they have many hurdles to overcome and finding happiness is so difficult for them. I'm not sure the balance is right but I do know that discussing the matter is better than what has happened in the past.

Trisher, what scientists? Exactly? Can you cite them or are you talking about woke social scientist types?

Because ALL the scientists I know believe in biology.

AND if you believe that I should accept being called Cis, because of some obscure scientist(s). Then you must be the same token accept transwomen being called male not femals cause of 99.9% of other scientists? Yes?

Sterilising children is not better than what happened in the past!!!

I dont disbelieve that some researchers, particularly in health and social care, feel FORCED to not object too strongly to woke non-facts out of fear..

That still doesnt make it true.

Cis is nonsense unless people specifically do identify as cis.

Anyone who includes me in a Cis cohort is missgendering me.

I oppose the whole concept of gender. I dont identify with it. I believe it is harmful. I identify as biologically female. Period.

I can think of maybe 3 females I know who would self identify as feeling like a "girly girl". Their sex "matches" the behaviours they exhibit which match the female gender steriotypes.

I have never heard a single one of them ever self identify as cis though.

So nope. Sorry. I know no cis people.

I know trans people. I know men who are men who like wearing "womens" clothes. I know feminine men, masculine men, but no self identified cis people.

Do you know any females who have transed to male?

Well, I seem to have been a cis woman, apart from a few dodgy years in my mid teens when I had a bit of a wobble. Probably down to attending an all girls boarding school. Definitely back on track now.

notanan2 I believe both of the terms you are using -female and woman are seen by some feminists as unacceptable because they refer to of or from men- The word “woman” refers to “of man” implying that a woman’s identity is inherently reliant on man…In spelling womyn with a “Y,” we recognize that womyn have diverse and different identities and roles which are not all defined by a relationship to men (or dictionaries!)
I believe that womyn traditionally bar trans-women
The more modern concept of womxn wouldn't suit you of course it's philosophy being that gender is far more complex than many realise and the difficulty of pronunciation reflects this.

No I know several transwomen. I also know a couple of transvestites/autogyns who apparently arent allowed to exits in the current woke universe, because men in dresses is NEVER a fettish, THEY ARE ALL REAL WIMMIN!! I dont know any transmen. I know many woman, myself included, who if they were children/teens TODAY would have had it suggested to them that they might be trans..... all identify as female as adults!

That was a reply to Fennel

Trisher. Define gender please. I would like to know what gender you think I am, do you have a set of criteria or a list or a quizz or something?

If actually BEING a female woman is not what makes me a woman? What does?

Am I maybe a man, or a... fish?

What am I? If I cannot just be what I factually biologically am

Thanks

Because this is what we are telling children: chose your gender!

But how?
What is it?
What am I if I am not what I just am?
How do I chose?

Pls help

Are you allowed to have NO gender?
I would prob pick that one
And just be a......... woman! No cis!

Having spent my life not fitting into the female stereotype I as very interested to see what Notanan had to say about the word cis.
I have never liked the sound of it. It feels wrong to me and now I know why.
It asks women to fit back into the narrow box of conformity. Back into the 1950's and early 1960's when being female meant matching what a man wanted in a female.
Am thankful those days are past.
I am uneasy about people being able to change gender on whim....without any medical back up. I have granddaughters and I do think this ease of being able to access female only spaces will be abused.

When i was in my early 20's I was very skinny and while out with a boyfriend wrapped in winter clothes I was taken to be a boy while in a pub. If that happened now could I sue? Isn't this all getting a bit daft?

It is good to see a hot topic being discussed on here.

I find the use of, IMV ridiculous words such as cis and woke, highly embarrassing for different reasons.
Woke, seems ludicrous coming from the pen or mouth of an older person.
I know what they mean but it all sounds like teen street slang, probably gleaned from GC.
Boy! am I glad none of mine are into the cis natal trans fluid LGBQT bantz sick woke language. Phew....

pinkquartz much as notanan2 might want to make it about fitting stereotypes the term "cis" has nothing to do with any of them. Cisgender basically means that you retain the genitalia you were born with. Anything else is purely a social construction that nn2 has chosen to put upon it.
I am reminded on this thread of all the abuse and condemnation which in the past was thrown at gay people, at children who behaved differently, and at people who dressed differently, and the roots of all the antagonism have, I believe, the same source, that we remain unable to accept differences, persist in believing there is something we term 'normal' and continue to condemn those we perceive as 'abnormal'. Or at least some people do.

Cisgender basically means that you retain the genitalia you were born with.

It really doesnt, not least because most transpeople never have "bottom surgery"

Trisher it is you in fact who remains unable to accept differences: That people simply do not fit neatly into cisgendered or trans.

Gabriella..18.34..?

"Anything else is purely a social construction that nn2 has chosen to put upon it."

n-no... I am OPPOSED to the social contructs of gender roles and gender expectations.

It was you that was allocating genders to all of us who happen to not be trans: cis gender! Remember?
... then you refuse to define gender..
.... but you also celebrate how progressive itbis to tell children to chose their own genders.. when you wont even quantify what it means!

I fail to understand what you mean by that last post notanan2 are you acknowledging that the two terms are useful? Are you saying that I attribute more to them than the basic -cis -birth genatalia, trans- chosen gender?
I know thathere is a wide range of behaviour and preferences in human behaviour I suggest you read Paris Lees on the subject. It's too long to post here. But she says it so accurately
www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jun/25/cis-oxford-english-dictionary-gender-transgender-hair-salon-test
Not having a hairdresser to test it on I'm happy to use Cis

Trisher you cant have it both ways: saying people should be allowed to chose their gender, and also saying that non trans people should have cis gender alocated to them.

Which is is?