another transgender surprise.

As far as I'm concerned, there are men and women. Males and females, from birth to death. Finis.

Calling someone a Cis woman is saying that they are acceptably feminine to count as behaving like a woman (i.e. far enough to the side of femininity/feminine behaviour to be "on the same side" of the spectrum as their natal sex).

Its just not a progressive way to view women or what being a woman means

I've just had another thought on this. Is there a link with with the rise of feminism since the 1970s?
Plus the advance in medicine that allows changes to take place.
I think most transgenders are from m to f (if I'm allowed to use those terms).

It means that woman = feminine. Man = masculine.

Your sex is "on the same side" as your gender behaviours.

It is a very regressive way to view the spectrum of behaviours and preferences within each sex

maryeliza54 - I have a Niece who is passionate about gender neutrality and who often challenges children's clothing and toy manufacturers about their stereotypical views. She would probably describe herself as gender critical too. I think it is becoming easier for people to challenge and break out from these stereotypes, which is all good.

Ultimately, whatever term people choose to describe themselves, as long as we treat each other with kindness, understanding and respect, we won't go wrong.

Cis does not simply mean not trans.

Cis is based on the assumption that all non trans peoples gender expression is the same as the gender steriotypesassociated with sex.

It literally means that they are "on the same side". That is what it actually means.

That your sex is on the same side of the spectrum of how much you behave and relate to gender steriotypes associated with that sex.

The term "cis" may be used as an insult but actually it has a scientific and academic history and is used by scientists.
While some believe that the term cisgender is merely politically correct, medical academics use the term and have recognized its importance in transgender studies since the 1990s

Notanan2 - I appreciate your response, thanks. I wasn't deeply offended by any stretch, just put on the back foot by it.

I admit that I had to read your post about cis being an insult a couple of times before it sunk in. I can now see it from your perspective.

Have you got that grannya?

I left out "unique". Their experience is "unique" to the intersex community.

The experience of intersex people, particularly those who were "miss managed" in the past by doctors. Have their own very personal to intersex people set of issues.

They do not = trans.

Trans is different.

Just as transwomen dont = natal women

Totally different experiences.

No. They were inappropriately diagnosed as female not intersex in that example.

It used to happen a lot in the past. Parents were asked to pick a sex then raisr the intersex child as that sex. They would often be operated on to look like that sex.

It was awful. And those people grew up feeling something was off

These days the children would simply be diagnosed as intersex. And left physically intact.

Grannyactivist - for a trans person to apply to have their birth certificate changed, they must have lived in their preferred gender for two years. In respect of gender re-assignment surgery, there is usually a period prior to this referred to as social gender role transition, where they live in their preferred gender for a period of time. This is usually one or two years.

If you feel that you are a blend of male and female, you might say that you are non-binary, or if you feel you fluctuate between the two you might choose to say gender-fluid. If you don't identify as either, you could describe yourself as agender.

If sex doesn't exist, there is definitely an elephant in the room.

Trans must mean "going over". And that's what they would be doing.

Well, they would be trans wouldn't they if the doc said, "right. It can be a girl". And then the person was so miserable that when they reached full adulthood, they decided to be a man. Because they are more comfortable with that.

Its simple. A small % of people are intersex.

They have their own specific challenges, issues and needs.

Some trans activists appropriate intersex peoples issues by USING them to claim that sex doesnt really exist. Only gender is real.

Oh God. I can't get my head round this new way of speaking. Just can't sort it out.

Intersex people are not trans.

Their issues are their own. Dont appropriate/conflate the two.

I have heard of babies being born with the xy chromosomes so equally balanced that it's difficult to tell if they should be girl or boy. And then a doctor decides, sometimes making the wrong choice. That must be hard to live with.

Cis IS an insult/slur when used towards a natal woman who opposes female gender steriotypes.

Because that is what CIS means. It means you match the gender steriotypes which have been assigned to your birth sex.

Which is okay. If you do and are cool with that.

Thats fine GrannyLiv

I have female friends in RL who also enjoy living up to feminine gender role steriotypes, and I defend their right to do so.

I apologise if I offended you personally.

But we are not all femme behaving CIS women just by the default of being women, who are not trans women.

Heavens, I understand very little of what has been discussed on this thread. The bit I do get is that I agree with maryeliza54. Never thought that would happen, scary.

& there is no requirement to change your birth cert in order to identify as a woman.

There is no bench mark. Just "cause I says so".