another transgender surprise.

Notanan2 - thanks for sharing your views, although from what I have read this afternoon there is a different between being gender critical and being critical of gender.

It is easy to infer meaning in text when none is meant, so I apologise if I have misinterpreted you, but your comment "like good little cis girls" came across as patronising. I choose to use cis just the same as you choose to use female sex.

Neither is wrong.

And yet, they must have lived 'as the opposite sex' for two years?

Wrong. That only applies to changing a birth cert.

Otherwise, doesnt seem to matter if a man has only claimed to be a woman since last tuesday to access womens spaces etc

In practice there is no time requirement of having "lived as" to claim transphobia for deadnaming and waste poilice time on it

Looking at the original post the reason the ruling was given was because MN did not attend or defend the application, presumably because they knew they had none of the things they were being asked to supply. Now you may think that the judgement is wrong but given the non-attendance it was inevitable. It is doubtful therefore that the ruling would set a legal precedent and it should be possible to oppose any future demands.
However if in the past someone has been hurt, deeply offended, even traumatised by a form of address or by a name they once used I can see no reason why they should have to endure the same pain again.
As for the instance of changing a name through marriage being similar I think perhaps if there had been an abusive relationship which caused distress and pain then refusing to be known by that name would seem equally as valid .

I had read about this word 'cis' and know what it's supposed to mean. Very strange, but babies have been born with uncertain sexual characteristics from time 'immoral'. The ability to change from one to another, or emphasise one rather than another, is new
RE 'sex' v 'gender'
In my working days I gave a teenage boy a personality questionnaire to fill out.
After name, dob etc it asked "sex".
He replied "Not yet" .

Serious question: do I understand correctly that transgender people don't have to have had surgery or medical intervention in order to be regarded as of the opposite sex to that in which they were born? And yet, they must have lived 'as the opposite sex' for two years? If so how do they 'construct what the 'opposite' sex is?

Not sure I've explained that well, but I am seriously confused because I know women who dress and behave non-stereotypically and men ditto. So if I was born a woman, but dress like a non-stereotypical woman; e.g. jeans and T-shirts (unisex?) and call myself a 'man', without any biological changes, what exactly is it that I've changed to become a 'man'?

But I prefer the Line of Duty interpretation..

Right.

Yeah thats the one gonegirl

The one you gave for your Range e-recipt then cant get into when you actually need to return that lamp!

Burner email is also what you use to buy things online etc if you dont want your personal email spammed with marketing

Oh right. One of those. The sort you get, and then can't for the life of you remember how to get onto it again.

It just means not:
[email protected]

An online non work email that doesnt really identify you.

I still have an email that I got when emails first came out. Its my full name. Most people had the same. I dont use that one for forums etc.

Although, of course, it's fine if you are!

? maryeliza I didn't mean you were exactly into it!

And what's a " burner email"? Something like the phones they have on Line of Duty?

"Being critical of the concept of gender of course"

Of course????!!! Right.

maryeliza I would never have thought you would have been into any of this.

Cis woman means you were born female AND you match female gender steriotypes.

Think about it...

Like good little Cis girls..

Nah

Redefining "women" as anyone who feels girly , or acts girly , or dresses girly , or likes girly things

And not doing the above makes you a lesser woman, and even possibly a boy/man if you believe what young girls are being taught in school under the guise of "inclusiveness"

Is a BIG STEP BACK for women
And clearly we must sit down and be quiet about it.

Ah well - I was brought up in a world that was not gender critical so I was subject to many of the stereotypical manifestations of masculinity and femininity which I’ve had to try to address.

Thats what being gender critical means

I.e. acting/looking/feeling steriotypically "girly" is not what makes someone a woman. Or not a woman.

Sounds like you are gender critical.

P.s. to whom it concerns, I am not Cis. Do not missgender me.

I am not CIS because what makes me female does not "match" gender steriotypes of what men think a woman should be/do/look like.

Thanks.

I dont "gender identify" at all. I think gender steriotypes are bollocks. I am of the female sex.

And since the Greens ‘non-men’ I really really can’t support them politically

I am a woman. Born a female and grew into womanhood.
One thing I hate to hear is a mixed group of people being called 'guys.
'Hi guys' is heard in pubs cafes and restaurants the world over.
I am not one.
On one occasion I was treated to a pub meal with some family members when we 'guys' were asked for our order.
With great restraint I kept schtum but had a word with the manager privately on the way out.
It's probably under the heading 'equality'.
Be anyone anywhere, anytime.
Fly to Oz as a man and return as woman, not having had any surgery or medication.
I think my next move will be in a barn as a cow, not just any cow, a Jersey cow.

I didn't really know what 'cis' meant although I have heard the term used, so I looked it up. It did sound vaguely familiar the first time I heard it and, of course, it is a Latin term meaning 'this side of' eg Cisalpine Gaul (part of the Roman Empire on this side of the Alps).

Cis and Trans were originally only used for definition of locations of geographical areas.
Are we still allowed to use them for that purpose?

This is a good starting pint

real-feminist-history.com/2016/12/25/gender-critical-feminism/

Yes I second that maryeliza, using the word only gives credence to a term that is wholly superfluous and diminishes us. I do believe that the onus should be on the infinitesimal minority to redefine themselves rather than the overwhelming majority where nothing will have changed as far as what sex we are since birth.

Whilst I appreciate language is evolving all the time, my perception is that most women will have never have come across such a word. A friend of mine who was asked to complete some sort of questionnaire at her place of work, was given multiple choices of how she wished to describe herself, "cis" being one of them, she wrote "no idea what a cis woman is so couldn't say one way or the other." That I imagine would be the response of the wider population. Those women who are familiar with the term, through sites like MN, I think you will find can't stand it.

Julia Hartley-Brewer told a man on air, that she would ask him to leave her studio when he used it. It might be a tiny word but adopting it has massive ramifications. We should collectively resist accepting it's use.