Nicola Sturgeon-does appearance matter?

Here’s a thought for you mycat - it’s perfectly possible to be both ‘outraged’ (although I steer away from hyperbole so wouldn’t describe it as outrage) at the double standards when it comes to our judgment of male and female politicians AND to dislike a particular political viewpoint without conflating the two. I don’t dislike NS any more than I dislike any of the other political leaders actually - I think we’re faced with an absolute sh*tstorm whichever path we’re taken down by the most inept bunch of politicians in a long time.

I’m definitely a feminist though - you were right on the one. Loud and proud ? ?

I do think SirChenjin* that I am able to judge things on more than one level and much as I may dislike TM's policies that is entirely seperate to looking at how these two women present themselves. NS undoubtedly was in her element at the party conference, but then TM surely should have been the same at hers. Instead she was as embarrassed as the rest of us when she came on to Abba. Why? And why hasn't she learned presentation in a lifetime in politics?

Incidently the two other politicians I would rank as as capable in the presentation game. as NS are Margaret Thatcher and Tony Blair. both of whom I hate. But they knew how to work the room.

Ahh right - so this is nothing about political achievements and simply about comparing two women in charge of governments in terms of how they present themselves? Got you.

Her politics might not apply to me but I'd happily have her fighting my corner any day in terms of delivery.

And what about the male politicians? Why focus specifically on what the women are wearing and doing with their hair?
SirChenjin that subject was exhausted by endless discussions about Corbyn's vest, Corbyn's hair, Corbyn's too-long trousers, Boris's hair, Boris's awful t shirt and shorts etc on social media ages ago.
Nothing more to say now!

Was it exhausted? I seem to remember there was more focus on (for example) JC and anti semetism, the challenge to his leadership and his lack of leadership in the Brexit debate than on his hair. That’s not to say that there’s not some men come in for a level of criticism for their tie or hairstyle but the women in politics (and indeed other walks of life) are scrutinised far more for their appearance than the men ever are.

Semitism even

SirChenjin

Here’s a thought the only one conflating them that I can see is you.

Lots of posters have admired the style and confidence of all the women mentioned without agreeing one jot with their politics.

The op was about confidence though not hair or dress sense but that’s fine to comment on anyway. Public eye and all that.

Well start your own thread then if you don’t like this one. Stop trying to derail it because quite frankly you don’t like Nicolas politics. Neither do lots of us but I still admire her as a confident we’ll dressed woman

Nope, I’m going to continue posting my views on the double standards that exist in the judgement of male and female politicians and their achievements versus the way they walk, dress and do their hair. When you start threads you’ll find some people agree with you and others don’t.

Why is NS stylish?
She just wears suits, the type you see 1000’s of women wearing every day.
As for her confidence, I just see her as aggressive & anti- English.

I like your posts SirChenjin

double standards
I think most posts on here are quite positive about Nicola Sturgeon's appearance and certainly her confidence.

Perhaps there is a link between a smart, neat, well-cared appearance compared to the slovenly appearance of some of our male politicians and our confidence in their abilities?

I haven't seen anyone wear suits like NS but then I tend not to see 1,000s of women every day.

I haven't seen anyone wear suits like NS

Do you live on a remote Scottish island? If you do I’ll understand why you think NS is stylish.
I live in London, so trust me, she’s nothing special.

No, remote Wales!
where no-one totters around like that

did I say stylish anywhere - I think she is neat, smart and has a well-cared for appearance but it is not stylish.

I've checked and no, I did not say stylish.
And none of my London friends dress like that either.

Yes Callie - double standards in that male politicians (male anything really) aren’t judged for the same things in the same way that the women are. The pressure on women to look a certain way is immense.

Kandinsky, have you ever heard Nicola Sturgeon say anything anti-English? I doubt if you have!
She has always supported maintaining strong links of friendship and mutual respect with England and the other nations of the UK following independence. That's how other successful, democratic and inclusive nations behave and that's what she wants for Scotland.

If you want a feminist slant to this thread (and I have no problem with that) one of the problems is that there are so few women in Parliament. The ability to preesnt well is something that benefits women and the reasons why some are not so good at it might help. I think Ruth Davidson is good at it, certainly better than TM. Which leads me to wonder if women really need to believe in what they are saying, and present better when they do. I've looked at TM's history and it took many attempts before she became an MP, perhaps because she doesn't come across well.

When first elected to power, the SNP stated that anyone who chose to live and work in Scotland could consider themselves Scottish if they want to. That is my understanding of Nicola Sturgeon's position - all welcome. I certainly have not heard anything anti-English from her or any of the senior nationalist politicians.
They'd be utterly daft to be against English people when they are our nearest neighbours and biggest market.
More worrying is the national stirring up of hatred against the EU who have been exceedingly patient with our country (I mean the UK)'s dithering and infighting. How's that going to help a smooth Brexit?
Trisher's thread compares the confidence shown by the PM and the FM and she has asked legitimate questions which have, in the main, been answered honestly and fairly.
Lucylastic makes several good points and I can see no double standards if you consider what's been said about Jeremy Corbyn and Boris Johnson -to name just two - in the past.

I don’t see how you can compare confidence between say, TM and NS, why should they be similar, they are two completely different characters.
In any case, NS may be not particularly confident inside herself, which makes sense of the suit of armour that she wears : eye watering bright suits, the type you often see at a wedding, very high heels and pancake style make up.

The most comfortable with herself Leader is Angela Merkel,
She is confident but exudes some warmth, and wears trousers and jacket and flat or flat-ish shoes.

NS seems confident ( whether she is or not) but also cocky.
T May not being confident with how she looks or comes over in general has no bearing on how confident she is as a politician.Tbh could she really have carried on as she has with everything that has been thrown at her, if she wasn’t?

Oh I think confidence is something which permeates all your life. If you have the ability to walk into a meeting looking as if you know what you are doing you are far more likely to get what you want from that meeting than if you creep in head bowed and looking shifty.

Absolutely agree, lemongrove, that Angela Merkel comes across as the most calmly confident female politician. I know that is not exactly what you said, but I agree with your general point.