Playing with fire

Very little regard seems to have been given to children’s emotional well being back in the day was it.

My mother now 80 was evacuated to wales during the war. Her mother went with her telling her it was a holiday and left during the night. She didn’t see her for another 9 months..my gran wasn’t cruel but it’s awful.

My mum said she thought that generation had been traumatised by living through 2 world wars.

To be fair they must have been very damaged. Who wouldn’t be.

Why has the odd smacked bottom now become " violent abuse ?" A hanging offence,is it ??

Agree EllanVannin

Sweeping laws like this risk criminalising loving parents instead of going after real abusers.,

It's because of the lack of discipline that there are so many feral kids out of control and the fact that crime has also reached new heights. If not, what's causing all the misbehaviour in children and young adults ?

Parents and teachers are scared to scold children now for fear the PC brigade and their ilk report them. It's all wrong !! Even the power of the police has been taken away when they're confronted by those who don't fear the law.

Serious question here.

I was at school 70s early 80s and no one had Aspergers or adhd. No one would dare answer back or disrupt the lessons.

Where were those kids then? I don’t remember anyone being excluded or expelled. Where they in special schools or what??

Yes they were Mycatisahacker along with the Down's syndrome children, children with cerebal palsy, those with hearing or sight impairment and anyone who generally didn't fit the profile of a proper child. Some of the schools were good and provided the children with a reasonable education , some weren't One thing they did do was seperate the able from the disabled, so that children grew up not recognising that disabled people are a part of society and like everyone else they can be good at some things and not good at others. The policy of bringing these children into ordinary schools began with really good intentions. Unfortunately the cuts to education have meant that they are now being severely neglected as their support assistants are taken away.

The 1981 Education Act which resulted from the 1978 Warnock Report fundamentally changed ideas of where children with SEN were educated from ‘special’ schools to support within mainstream schools. There have also been advances in diagnostic and testing techniques.

I was in schools (infant/jnr/senior) from 1949-1961 and had same experience. Teachers ruled the classes not the other way around. None of my friends or anyone I knew had 'problems' even after starting work.

Hence the need for teaching assistants in mainstream schools nowadays. All in a class together creates different problems. Neither system is perfect.

The point is that those children with 'difficulties' if I may put it like that, weren't in school all the time and I at no time met or knew anyone socially who had said 'difficulties'.

I have never ever understood why it is necessary to physically punish a child. Nor is the alternative the ridiculous idea of threatening and frightening children. In fact ime its been parents who hit who also say stupid things like Father Christmas won’t come or Mummy won’t love you. I doubt very much that young people today with severe behavioural problems are the ones who’ve not been physically abused in some way - much more likely tgecreverse.

I can't believe in smacking even though it was, and still is to a degree, a form of quick punishment.
I once smacked one of my children on the back of the legs and the silent tears killed me.

It’s true ‘Urm’ that neither system is perfect but the current one would be much better with better funding. The old system was truly dreadful - many of the schools were residential and children were taken from their families in order to be educated - David Blunkett has written movingly on this. There was also lack of oversight and we now know physical and sexual abuse in these residential schools. Children lost regular contact with their families, friends and communities.

There were children with what would now be recognised as adhd, autism,or dyslexia. They weren’t diagnosed in the ‘50s and ‘60s but they were supported in mainstream schools where possible, even in classes of 40. An individual child was accepted as being ‘different’ and a good teacher would do their best for that child albeit without ticking boxes or labelling the child. Primary schools were, imho, more relaxed places with less stress and more opportunities for teachers to use professional judgement.
The actual special schools varied of course but some were positive places catering for the child's specific needs.

Thinking that’s how it was with vulnerable ‘institutionalised’ children is so sad maryeliza

No wonder most of us received schooling without seeing or spending time with ‘difficult’ children.

However in my opinion the pendulum has swung too far the other way nowadays.

As I said, neither system is perfect.

tricher thankyou I suspected that was the case.

I guess the whole question boils down not to where children are educated but if that education is well funded and of good quality.

I know many parents of downs children were told to leave the child to the state and try again.

At dds high school they had a unit for children with additional needs on the same premises and all mixed generally for lunch breaks. That seemed to work well.

When you think about it what David blunkett personally achieved was incredibly.

Re DB - absolutely. He was not allowed to take O levels and was told to train as a piano tuner. All the system. saw was his blindness and that’s again part of the whole change in how disability is now conceptualised through the social model of disability rather than the physical ( or mental) disability itself. I think we sometimes forget how far we’ve come and it’s a pity that scarce resources are threatening the educational opportunities again of children with SEN. Parents have to fight incredibly hard for help now

Elreldyslexia wasn't recognised until fairly recently ,my OH recently went to the funeral of an old friend whose best friend was Jackie Stewart the racing driver,he's dyslexic he was told he was dumb,stupid thick etc etc .Was never given any assistance and wasn't diagnosed as dyslexic until he was well into adulthood .Sure he's done very well in life but if his dad hadn't had the local garage he might have been left to flounder as there wasn't anyone who wanted a young man with his educational problems .
Jackie said at the funeral that if it hadn't been for his friend ( the deceased) giving him assistance with everyday things he couldn't do he wouldn't have got anywhere in racing or anywhere else . Thank goodness times have changed and we dont belt kids for needing help.

I smacked my children occasionally when they were little, and they've both grown up to be lovely, kind, generous, adults. And they never needed to be smacked after four-years old.

Now, parents are told not to smack, so they try other things like banning ipods, taking toys away, not allowing treats, etc. These punishments last for days, whereas a quick smack is over and done with, and forgotten.

Animals 'smack' their young. (Years ago, a bitch we had, regularly 'cuffed' her puppies when they got over-exuberant.) And have you ever watched bears with their cubs? They clout them all the time! So I think it's a natural, parental, reaction to naughtiness, imminent danger, etc.

My daughter and her husband vowed that they would never smack their daughter. She is now five. All the taking away of toys, etc. hasn't worked. She is naughty and quite rude to them at times. In desperation, they have had to resort to smacking. Bit late, in my opinion, but we shall see.

Well I managed perfectly well with no smacking ( as does dd) and without the utter stupidity of taking away toys, treats, iPods etc. You can’t justify smacking by saying other punishments are worse when they aren’t needed either.

It isn't either smacking or ridiculous emotional threats. Hopefully its about parents remaining patient, calm and setting clear limits on their children's behaviour. Most parents manage this well.
The children who are described as 'ferrel' or find themselves excluded from main stream so vulnerable to all kinds of horrors are most likely to be children who have experienced physical and emotional abuse.
The reason some people didn't realise many children have emotional, developmental or behavioural problems until relatively recently, is because those children were shunted off to residential schools at a very early age. There were also day 'special schools' which were closed down along with the residential schools.
Many children sent off to residential schools were children whose needs were being neglected at home. Boys particularly were often described as 'running wild' and in need of the discipline at the residential schools. Those children are now parents themselves and no surprise they're struggling.

This "Oh I was smacked and it never did me any harm" attitude is puzzling. The point is did it do any good? And the evidence is that physical punishment never has improved most children's behaviour. Those children who were mostly good and only needed one smack would have been good anyway and those children who needed to be regularly smacked regarded it as something of a status symbol and went on mis-behaving.
If parents are having trouble dealing with their children they need coping strategies not the right to smack.

I'd previously asked what makes children and young adults obnoxious with no respect for the law.
Nothing to do with " residential schools ".

The fact that their parents in many cases behave in exactly the same manner EllanVannin. It's learned behaviour.