Playing with fire

Mycatisahacker hit the nail on the head Fennel when she said it's easier to pursue good parents than confront the ones that really are hurting their children. This filters through to the police force. It's easier to sit in a lay by with a speed camera and prosecute someone doing 34 in a 30 mph limit than it is to confront a violent drug dealer.

It's a waste of resources to persecute decent parents. Sadly, there are children out there who need the authorities to focus on their safety.

"SS would do well to concentrate on truly abused children. Better use of their time than persecuting parents who believe in an occasional smack."
Yes but the new law in Wales could force the Social Services and the police into that position. As with the teenagers reporting their parents in my earlier post.
So difficult to find that fine line between chastisement, or a temporary loss of temper, and actual abuse.

Excellent posts Ellenvanin and Mycatisahacker

I don't think I have ever met one person in my entire life who liked, let alone loved school.

SS would do well to concentrate on truly abused children. Better use of their time than persecuting parents who believe in an occasional smack.

Some people live in a bubble.

Ellsnvanin

As a fellow nurse of long standing I agree with you over SS. I too saw some dreadful neglect.

And in my experience the worst behaved children were defiantly not those who were physically emotionally or sexually abused at home. They were quiet and well behaved because they were scared.

We always worried about the quiet sad scared looking children. The ‘naughty’ones were usually from loving homes.

Because it’s much easier and physically safer for social workers to pursue middle class people who have smacked their child occasionally than it is to pursue violent antisocial monsters who perpetuate dreadful abuse.

tricher

You can’t really present an argument if you Haven't got statistics to back you up and you said you Havant Your experience is obviously your experience but it’s only anecdotal.

The usual rant EllanVannin actually there are children who love school because it provides a stable and organised place where they know what will happen. That doesn't mean such children are easy to teach or that they always behave well. They are very disturbed when any unexpected change takes place and bring into school all the problems from a chaotic home background where they might or might not have been hit. They have more problems in secondary schools because they are so large and impersonal.
Next time you are out and about shopping look around at the teenagers who have been sent home because the school can't manage them. Do you really think they are better off hanging around shopping centres? Teachers know exclusion is a last resort and only use it when they are forced to.
What is the point of living in the past?

Being a nurse for most of my life I have seen horrendous abuse against children-----far worse than a smacked bottom !
One instance in particular where my faith in the child protection services was completely shattered. How they ever knew what they were doing at the time I'll never know to this day but it was the wrong move and sadly their sheer incompetence has been highlighted over the years with some of the worst child abuse/neglect the world ever saw----------and still " lessons haven't been learned " in tracking down those criminals who harm children either psychologically or physically. Shocking !!

I could write a book about the shortcomings of social services and child protection services.

Just the sight of some teachers in my day were enough for us kids to make sure we pulled our weight. Apart from the PE teacher everyone else was " old " which immediately spelled authority/in charge. The old headmaster wore a cap and gown and floated around like a bat with his cloak flapping. A fatherly figure who was quietly spoken------it was his overall presence which was the deterrent.

Every lesson throughout that school you could have heard a pin drop during sessions and one class there was a cane in the corner which wasn't used when I was there.
There was never any class disturbance in the mid to late 50's , nor even in the school itself, kids back then had more sense than to talk in class let alone create the mayhem that we see and hear of now.

It all boils down to respect, and begins in the home !
It should never be left to any teacher to discipline a pupil and obviously if a pupil is being difficult then the easiest option is to send him/her home and this is what's happening today.
Teachers are there to teach not to try and control unruly pupils !
Nothing whatsoever to do with whether kids get told off or hit at home. Children don't like school-----FACT !

llizzie2 about the same level of care as the two mums who took their sons round to the back of our school and proceeded to tell them to "fight it out". We had spent all day trying to get the two to find an amicable solution to their argument!
For some people violence is an acceptable part of their lives. I just don't want to be part of that.
As for the discussion about class control and hitting. I bet most of us can remember teachers who had little class control but who used violence. It doesn't follow that hitting gives better control. It needs a certain authority, caring staff and a good school-wide support system.

Sorry - for 'pavement' read 'playground'.

The worse story I ever heard was of the punishment of children fighting in the pavement. The school said that unless the parents were prepared to administer corporal punishment the children would be sent down and not take their exams. I was horrified.

Whenever I started in a new class at school the first thing mum did was go in and tell the teacher if I ever needed a smack then they had her permission, I only ever got the ruler once and that was because I didn’t get changed from PE quickly enough.
Two of my daughters thought certain classes a complete waste of time, not because they disliked the lessons just that some of the pupils were so unruly, shouting, throwing things, jumping on the desks and in a couple of cases jumping out the window, the teachers had no idea what to do with them so come gcse time no one in their class passed it as they were so far behind.
That isn’t just about controlling those pupils it’s also about letting the ones that want to learn be held back because of them

Mycatisahacker But you can’t generalise for a whole population because a small minority of parents are violent abusers. Those parents should face the full force of the law and i have dealt with child abuse cases during my working life.
How would that equate with violence against women? Should we say it's OK for a man to hit his wife occasionally but not regularly?
EllanVannin No statistics just experiences.

iam64

I think they were venting at her perfect parenting



People get pissed off when patronised.,

Phoebe wrote:
"I think it depends a lot on whether the slap is pre-meditated or a spur of the moment thing."
That's my view too. I don't believe that many parents have never lost their temper with their child. But we still love them. Most child rearing is 'spur of the moment'.
As for the possible new law in Wales -
I worked in childre's srvices from the 60s to the 90s. I remember at one time a new law came in, (maybe local?) where children could report their parents for hitting/smacking them. There were several families I knew where the child, always a teenager, reported the parent. Then the social services had to do something, and sometimes the child was removed.
Not always for the best.
So the consequence of the the parent being investigated by the police in the current situation is realistic.
What are the penalties?

Exactly mycat, which is why I’m puzzled that several posts have demanded to
Know how to parent successfully without hitting

"It didn't do either of us any harm...except having red cheeks for a bit. *GabriellaG54 (Mon 06-May-19 20:45:54)

... and yet we know you as the person who puts her own wealth ahead of the lives of others. I would blame it on the beatings if I was you.

iam64

I am guessing those posters asking were being sarcastic?

Trichers list is what all normal parents do and was certainly well known wen I was first a parent 30 years ago.

It’s not rocket science it’s common sense.,

georgia101

Well exactly.?

Thanks to trisher, maryliza, whitewave , cherry tree and others for your contribution to this thread. No one is suggesting a one off slap by a loving if exasperated parent constitutes abuse. The non smacking group unite in saying there are better ways to help children learn acceptable behaviour. Trisher’s post spells that out for those demanding explanations on how to parent successfully without hitting

I agree child psychology indeed all emotional/mental health needs are understood more these days.

Doesn’t mean that out treatment of those issues are any better now.

At dds school there was a full time councillor.

It was well known that if you wanted to get out of maths/PE you requested to see him him to stress!

I have to say in my view and in the view of my closest friends who are high school teachers teenagers now are less resilient and less happy and more stressed than there grandparents were.,

And please don’t blame it all on the internet and social media. That has been questioned literally today my oxford uni study.

We have by no means got all the superior answers to parenting kids properly today.

My mother once told me that her mum used to tell her she didn't love her anymore when she'd been naughty, but never ever told her that she loved her again when she was good. She felt unloved. Far worse to do that to a child than the occasional short sharp smack on the bum in my opinion. Regular and senseless beatings of course are totally wrong. Surely people know the difference between beating and gently correcting a child. We're turning into a police state.

Children are cunning. If they cause ructions in school they know that they'll be sent home------which is just what they want !
Would they rather stay in a school where they're safe or go home for a battering ??
There's your answer to your battered kids Trisha !

If anything, it's those who are not used to discipline and an orderly behaviour who are excluded.

WW Thank goodness