Playing with fire

tricher thankyou I suspected that was the case.

I guess the whole question boils down not to where children are educated but if that education is well funded and of good quality.

I know many parents of downs children were told to leave the child to the state and try again.

At dds high school they had a unit for children with additional needs on the same premises and all mixed generally for lunch breaks. That seemed to work well.

Thinking that’s how it was with vulnerable ‘institutionalised’ children is so sad maryeliza

No wonder most of us received schooling without seeing or spending time with ‘difficult’ children.

However in my opinion the pendulum has swung too far the other way nowadays.

As I said, neither system is perfect.

There were children with what would now be recognised as adhd, autism,or dyslexia. They weren’t diagnosed in the ‘50s and ‘60s but they were supported in mainstream schools where possible, even in classes of 40. An individual child was accepted as being ‘different’ and a good teacher would do their best for that child albeit without ticking boxes or labelling the child. Primary schools were, imho, more relaxed places with less stress and more opportunities for teachers to use professional judgement.
The actual special schools varied of course but some were positive places catering for the child's specific needs.

It’s true ‘Urm’ that neither system is perfect but the current one would be much better with better funding. The old system was truly dreadful - many of the schools were residential and children were taken from their families in order to be educated - David Blunkett has written movingly on this. There was also lack of oversight and we now know physical and sexual abuse in these residential schools. Children lost regular contact with their families, friends and communities.

I can't believe in smacking even though it was, and still is to a degree, a form of quick punishment.
I once smacked one of my children on the back of the legs and the silent tears killed me.

I have never ever understood why it is necessary to physically punish a child. Nor is the alternative the ridiculous idea of threatening and frightening children. In fact ime its been parents who hit who also say stupid things like Father Christmas won’t come or Mummy won’t love you. I doubt very much that young people today with severe behavioural problems are the ones who’ve not been physically abused in some way - much more likely tgecreverse.

The point is that those children with 'difficulties' if I may put it like that, weren't in school all the time and I at no time met or knew anyone socially who had said 'difficulties'.

Hence the need for teaching assistants in mainstream schools nowadays. All in a class together creates different problems. Neither system is perfect.

I was in schools (infant/jnr/senior) from 1949-1961 and had same experience. Teachers ruled the classes not the other way around. None of my friends or anyone I knew had 'problems' even after starting work.

The 1981 Education Act which resulted from the 1978 Warnock Report fundamentally changed ideas of where children with SEN were educated from ‘special’ schools to support within mainstream schools. There have also been advances in diagnostic and testing techniques.

Yes they were Mycatisahacker along with the Down's syndrome children, children with cerebal palsy, those with hearing or sight impairment and anyone who generally didn't fit the profile of a proper child. Some of the schools were good and provided the children with a reasonable education , some weren't One thing they did do was seperate the able from the disabled, so that children grew up not recognising that disabled people are a part of society and like everyone else they can be good at some things and not good at others. The policy of bringing these children into ordinary schools began with really good intentions. Unfortunately the cuts to education have meant that they are now being severely neglected as their support assistants are taken away.

Serious question here.

I was at school 70s early 80s and no one had Aspergers or adhd. No one would dare answer back or disrupt the lessons.

Where were those kids then? I don’t remember anyone being excluded or expelled. Where they in special schools or what??

It's because of the lack of discipline that there are so many feral kids out of control and the fact that crime has also reached new heights. If not, what's causing all the misbehaviour in children and young adults ?

Parents and teachers are scared to scold children now for fear the PC brigade and their ilk report them. It's all wrong !! Even the power of the police has been taken away when they're confronted by those who don't fear the law.

Agree EllanVannin

Sweeping laws like this risk criminalising loving parents instead of going after real abusers.,

Why has the odd smacked bottom now become " violent abuse ?" A hanging offence,is it ??

Very little regard seems to have been given to children’s emotional well being back in the day was it.

My mother now 80 was evacuated to wales during the war. Her mother went with her telling her it was a holiday and left during the night. She didn’t see her for another 9 months..my gran wasn’t cruel but it’s awful.

My mum said she thought that generation had been traumatised by living through 2 world wars.

To be fair they must have been very damaged. Who wouldn’t be.

DGPs’

Mycat - You’ve just reminded me of DM who ‘didn't believe in corporal punishment’. At 6 my life changed, DF back from the war, living as a family of 3 instead of at DGP’s, different school, new neighbours, loss of former friends. I can’t have been very happy, I guess.
My screams and tantrums led to DM telling me I was ‘beyond parental control’ so could be ‘taken away’.

Exactly, throwing away toys and endless threats eg Father Christmas won’t come etc can be emotionally abusive. Parenting - easy peasy ?

Me too iam64 honestly been there but don’t beat yourself up, excuse the expression.

I bet your dd completely understands your actions.,

There are far worse things than a smack on the bum.,

Yes it’s not ideal but neither is it abuse.,

Deedaa

You are completely right.,I well remember popping into my neighbours house to see her 5 year old weeping., she had told him he had been so naughty he was being sent to the children’s home!!

She was an anti smacker too.

The sheer cruelty made my blood boil and we had such words we have never spoken to this day.,

That’s 27 years ago. Her son emigrated to Oz aged 19!!!

Go figure.

Yes mycatisahacker, there are degrees of harm. I’m in the don’t hit children camp. I don’t say all parents who occasionally smack once with a hand are harming their children, I do believe smacking should be avoided. There are more effective methods of discipline. I smacked one of mine at age 11 on the legs after she did something she knew was dangerous, stupid and that both her parents would be upset, angry and worried. I wish I’d handled it better, as I usually would have. I’m not claiming expert parenting, I dislike hitting or violence in families.

Mycatisahacker I have sometimes thought that parents who come up with punishments involving cancelling outings or taking away toys - or even throwing away - are actually being really unpleasant to their children and a quick smack would be better all round.

I too am an empty headed idiot

iam64

There are degrees of that though arnt there.,the odd slap on the bottom isn’t in any way harmful. Regular violent beatings are.