Next Tory Leader.

And I cannot think of a worse PM or cabinet within my living memory.

They are equally dreadful both front benches.

Why don’t Hammas hold elections?

Why have Hammas executed dozens of protesters in Gaza?

Supporting the Palestinian people absolutely right! Supporting Hammas no massive level of misjudgment

I see Corbyn and may have broken off negotiations.

Good. A deal cobbled together between those 2 frankly appalling leaders would be clearly dreadful for Britain.

I agree mycat but the rally wasn’t just Hammas was it?

No but he really needs to nail this to bed. He probably could influence Hammas to do the right thing but his public support for them is being used by them to bolster their position.

Look I don’t think Corbyn is evil or bad of course not but his lack of judgment and political innocence verging on stupidity does not a PM make.

Granted no one could have done a worse job than TM either home office or as PM but labour could and should have done better.

Yvette, although I don’t support her Brexit stance, would have been far far better.

"I mean labout had been hyjacked by the far left so the Tories will inevitable go to the far right." (Fri 17-May-19 08:05:24)

I am quite horrified by the success of the brainwashing that has been carried out by the Tory right Mycat. The current Labour Party manifesto and all the ideas being put forward by them at the moment are less "far-left" than the Social Democratic post-war Labour government and the following Tory governments. This was the time when the Tories told us we had "never had it so good". This was true in the way that ordinary people had never felt such a sense of agency; the sense of having greater control over their own destiny.

Since Thatcher, this has been gradually disappearing. One of Thatcher's first acts was to remove exchange controls which immediately changed the power between labour and capital. Subsequent deregulation, such as the "Big Bang" bonfire of regulation, and all that has followed in its wake, has created a government that cannot govern and wealth that cannot be held to account, even when it crashes the economy.

The sense of a loss of the post-war agency is a true one but it has not been caused by Labour, the EU or anything other than the Tory governments since Thatcher. Agency now equals wealth and if you don't have it, and preferably lots of it, what you do have will be taken away by a far-right, neo-liberal government run for the benefit of the wealthy, by Johnson, Gove, et al.

This swing to the right means that governments, of left, right or in the middle, have been deprived of democratic oversight of wealth, as we saw in the recent crash and on many occasions since. It means that wealth does not have to answer to democracy and needs no sense of accountability, as that is no longer required by our government.

Far from any imaginary "far-left" being the issue, our challenge is how not to destroy wider wealth-making, but to bring it to heel so that the feeling that many of us grew up with - a sense that if we worked and followed the rules we could have a better life, is returned to us. This went with the continued deregulation that means we are governed now, not by elected MPs but by wealth and those who manipulate it.

I have repeated this because, having spent ages writing it and checking the facts, etc., all we get is an off-topic, ad hominin attack. I was trying to add to the political argument and am happy to have that challenged. A party will go on for a lot longer than any leader or member. People are willing to accept a party that wants to represent the UK in Europe but they can't even be bothered to put a manifesto together for voters to look at and cannot be bothered to discuss the details of what other parties are offering.

Is this what we have come to? It's all and only about the leader whatever they intend to do to the county if you give them power?

Mycat I agree with your posts and expect that many on here do, as you are that rare being .....one who can see that wrongdoing is done by both sides.
Much is made of worship of Farage on GN but the truth is that there is even more Corbyn worshipping going on and has been for years.The man can make no mistakes according to some and is ‘not particularly even very left
wing’ they say ( always makes me laugh, that one.)
As a future PM ( nightmare scenario) he is weak, dithering and does not have the best interests of the UK at heart, he is in thrall to any Communist leader etc etc.
While T May has turned out to be equally dithering, she certainly does have courage to stand up to such as Putin.
She should have resigned as leader before now and really must go soon.

If TM had the courage to stand up to Putin she would never have continuously driven Putin's brexit policy forward.

Sigh!

lemongrove

Thanks I am so cynical about both sides af find it incredible that anyone can see either Corbyn or Farrage as credible leaders.

I don’t get the hero worship either or the Russian conspiracy theories or trump conspiracy theories.

The facts are neither of them are suitable morally sensibly or competent in any way to be PM.

Who mentions individuals? The lies told by some posters amaze me. All personal attack and no real thinking. You would think running the country was X Factor.

No but you seriously can’t ignore down play the moral or ethical character of a future PM.

I expect you dislike Trump? As I do.

Corbyn isn’t a bad man but his judgement and views are totally at odds with what a PM should be. As in my view are Boris but I think he will get to head the Tories.

It’s not so much “wrongdoing” it’s unwillingness to compromise, over the last 3 yrs goals, ambitions and predictions have been made and the best agreement that the EU will accept is the backstop deal. That leaves the UK worse off than remaining, with none of the freedoms promised by the Brexiteers.

There is no point putting a hard right PM into office, we will still be arguing in a years time. A straight in or out second referendum will settle the issue, a 3 way vote with a deal as the third option will split the votes, then what

Sadly I think the leadership contest has been turned already into a version of the X Factor. We’ve had Raab and Hunt posing with their wives in their super kitchens, we’ve had Liz Truss with hair be curled, designer dressed in the Mail and now the BJ Show. Despair doesn’t come close. The media are salivating at the joy of the contest and will encourage the LCD in the whole debate.

The spell Boris had as Foreign secretary proves he is incapable of leading anything effectively, he is a loose cannon.

Yet wasn’t he voted in as London mayor twice?

Talking of cannons - I think he was right to buy them (even though they sold for a huge loss). Macron has no qualms about deploying them during the Paris demonstrations!

Oops! Water ones (obv)

Shame how the LCD spoils democracy eh? All those stupid people gumming up the works ...
?

Yes agree Maryeliza but it will be equally the same circus when Corbyn goes. Indeed it’s the same with Corbyn now surrounded by his almost hysterically hero worshipping groupies.

Just like Farrage

I suppose it’s the media age we live in.

That's your opinion "Mycat" (12.49) and, of course you are entitled to hold it. However, it is no proof that anyone, other than those who, for whatever reason, have formed some level of personal bias against him are talking about him on here other than to correct posts that are, shall we say, economical with the truth. Lemongrass description of other posters is quite risible.

Now I bothered to reply to you about how "far-left" the Labour Party proposes to go. As I said, I see no proof of that. I would be truly interested in what you made of what I suggested.

GracesGran

Again I don’t think he’s a bad man.

However his judgment and leadership are questionable over his dealings with Hammas and his failure to deal with the anti semitism in his party.

These are facts. Do I think he’s a racist? No. Do I think he supports terrorist acts no!

However his judgment is poor. His leadership is poor.

Honestly I can’t see how you can’t see that or argue it’s a right ring conspiracy or the press bias blah blah. Do you really look upon amyone as totally to be admired and never criticised.

urmstongran

I was listening to Boris biographer today and he was stressing that he is, of course, no buffoon but a highly intelligent man who none the less hated details but when focused did brilliantly.

The garden bridge was pure ego. That is a bad downfall of his. However my opinion of him as London mayor where he managed to get a grip on the knife crime upsurge was admirable.

Of course he didn’t have the swinging cuts to his police budge as Khan has but that’s another story.

The water cannon and macron is interesting. The French though are far more volatile on masse than us brits I think so both sides were far more violent.

And I have no personal bias against Corbyn or any of them I just see the facts. I don’t hero worship. Uncritical admiration of politicians is extremely dangerous.

Is the Tory leadership contest a replacement for the Jeremy Kyle Show (or am I thinking of the antics of Farage)?

varian

You are probably right

Also did he or didn’t he lay the wreath! Phone a friend or 50/50 do Zionist’s get irony oh ask the audience

Or poor old Dianne on countdown! Doing the sum 4 hours later.

They really are all a bloody shambles arnt they?

varian - wow, can I borrow?