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Confirmatory Vote

(206 Posts)
Whitewavemark2 Mon 13-May-19 08:59:13

If an agreement on a WA is reached, and it is a big if, Starmer has said that Labour intends to put the final decision to the U.K.

Given that the vote for leave left wide open the way we left, and also given the fact that since the vote it has become all too clear how complicated, potentially damaging and divisive this is, then it seems to me that in order to prevent our democracy from being damaged even further than a confirmatory vote is the only way forward.

I am a strong remainer, and my preference is to revoke, but I realise that in order to begin to reach out to those who voted leave across this huge divide then a confirmatory vote is one of the best ways to firstly confirm that we are leaving - essential now that we are all aware of the facts- , and most importantly HOW we leave.

Mycatisahacker Mon 13-May-19 09:46:18

I agree with you and I am afraid you will be as a remainder disappointed because I think there will be a far bigger margin to leave.

Not because people’s opinions on Brexit have changed but because so many people are so furious at the incompetence and duplicity of this Parliament.

However I wonder what the question on the ballot paper be? It can’t just be remain or her deal. To not have leave no deal would be very dangerous and put millions out of main stream politics in anger and into the arms of the far right

GabriellaG54 Mon 13-May-19 09:47:17

Haha...good luck with that. 👎🏻😂

Whitewavemark2 Mon 13-May-19 09:59:00

No you misunderstand me mycat sorry.

This really isn’t a question about what the vote would eventually be - of course I would love remain- but whether a confirmatory vote could possibly reach out across the huge divide in our country?

It seems to me that the divisions, rather then lessening are becoming ever bigger. My instinct quite honestly is not to have another vote but I am being persuaded that this is the only way forward, without 50% of the country of either side feeling ignored and resentful, and that the democratic process isn’t working.

We voted to leave but not HOW. Now is the time to give consideration how this can be achieved, and achieved in such a way that all sides feel included. No one can get entirely what they want out of it but reconciliation must be a goal.

Grany Mon 13-May-19 10:20:29

Yes I agree with this a confirmatory vote. People can have a vote to what will be the outcome as presented leavers and remainers to bring to a conclusion

Framilode Mon 13-May-19 10:29:00

I too am a remainer and I now think a confirmatory vote is the best way forward. We all know so much more about what leaving the EU will mean. I, too, think leave would win and I would accept that result as one made in full knowledge of the consequences.

Pippa000 Mon 13-May-19 10:32:42

I think there were a lot of lies misleading statements made in the buildup to the referendum, would we be in this mess now if we knew what leaving would mean? I don't know. Whatever is decided, to have or not to have a confirmatory, there will be a lot of very bitter folk who may feel that we have been let down by the politicians. Personally I am being persuaded that a confirmatory is the only way the people can have a say in what we now know is the effect on all of us of leaving the EU.

MaizieD Mon 13-May-19 10:34:07

I have always thought that a confirmatory vote is the lesser of two evils. The General Election that Labour was intent on trying for would just muddy the waters in the same way that the last one did as there are far more issues involved in a GE than just Brexit.

However, a confirmatory vote needs very careful planning to avoid the illegality and fraud that affected the 2016 vote. I don't have any confidence whatsoever that the current government would be able to legislate for a 'clean' vote.

Urmstongran Mon 13-May-19 10:46:21

I don’t think Labour + the Conservative party will even get to agree a deal, therefore no confirmatory vote will happen.

Happiyogi Mon 13-May-19 10:51:54

Pippa, I agree. They were lies, and no one has been held to account for the damage caused.

The whole focus has been on 'getting on with it' but I've yet to hear any meaningful discussion of how life would, or could, be post-departure. What kind of society do we want to be, with what kind of leaders and what sort of future??? Where are the leaders with vision and imagination and aspirations to build a better society for all?

It reminds me of the couples who spend years micro- focusing on the one day of their forthcoming wedding, but haven't given any thought about how to do "marriage" for the rest of their lives.

Nonnie Mon 13-May-19 11:36:52

I too think the only way forward is a confirmatory vote because there seems to be no alternative. MPs are not going to reach agreement so it has to come back to us. I think it is the only way of healing the country, just a little.

I don't think that simply revoking A50 would be fair to those who want to leave.

I don't think No Deal should be on the paper because a majority of MPs don't want it so it would not be delivered. I think there is little choice but to have the simple, achievable questions, the Deal (whatever it is) or Remain.

The reason I doubt it will happen is because MPs don't want to take sides in case it upsets their electorate. They are worried about losing their jobs. The few who, imo, are more concerned about the country than themselves have already broken away from the main parties. They may be brave or foolish but I think their motivation is good.

Whitewavemark2 Mon 13-May-19 11:48:31

To be frank a confirmatory vote fills me with horror and dread, but what other way is there? We can’t possibly impose a decision on 50% of the electorate, it simply isn’t democratic.

There definately is no appetite for no deal throughout the U.K. whatever Farage would have you believe, especially once the voter understands the implication of no deal. But it could be on the voting slip, although the more complicated the vote is the more open it is for either splitting the vote or producing even more division.

GabriellaG54 Mon 13-May-19 13:22:00

Well, I and 4 others have just bought our tickets for the NF 🗣rally at Lakeside Country Club on Sun 19th. It's going to be great. Dinner and drinks afterwards to chew the fat. 😄

Mycatisahacker Mon 13-May-19 16:24:34

It’s so difficult isn’t it because I agree it may have to go back to the electorate but what would be the question in the ballot paper.

As urmstrongran I think rightly says no sensible credible deal can be done between labour and the Tories on this or not one that Parliament would agree.

With the no deal scenario,or really WTO rules, I think it’s gathered support because of the ‘grind you down’ factor.

Isn’t theresa May quite appalling as pm though. What a bloody awful mess we seem to have inflicted on ourselves.

And meanwhile no proper parliamentary business is being done.

GillT57 Mon 13-May-19 16:30:28

gabriellaG National Front? or Nigel Farage?

Bridgeit Mon 13-May-19 16:34:58

Lakeside Country Club , sounds like a nice pleasant place to hold a rally. Pretty safe from being asked awkward questions.

Mycatisahacker Mon 13-May-19 16:37:22

Think lakeside country club a tad upmarket for the National front grin

Hope it’s roast beef on the menu GG and not bloody foreign muck like snails grin and apple crumble not bloody tiramisu! grin

GillT57 Mon 13-May-19 16:49:59

well whatever floats your boat Gabriellag. This is the venue for the World Darts tournament too, so should be lovely for all the NF supporters. I hope your leader inspires you with his beery breath and cigar infused bullshit camaraderie. And yes, I am judging you.

Mycatisahacker Mon 13-May-19 16:52:59

I don’t particularly agree with Nigel any more than I agree with Jacob Reece Mogg or Corbyn or Lammy but I certainly don’t judge anyone listening to them, questioning them and engaging in debate.

I judge those so entrenched they prefer their own echo chambers and can’t engage.

That I judge.

Mycatisahacker Mon 13-May-19 16:55:18

snd what on Earth has darts got to do with it? hmm

GabriellaG54 Mon 13-May-19 16:58:04

We're not eating at Lakeside we're eating at The Berystede in Ascot or, more properly, Bagshot but they're cheek by jowl.

Mycatisahacker Mon 13-May-19 17:04:03

Well let us know how it goes and what you think. Should be an interesting meet.

Bridgeit Mon 13-May-19 17:05:15

Can you share with us which particular attributes of NF appeal to you ?

GabriellaG54 Mon 13-May-19 17:06:20

IMV there are certain people who like to bring everything they don't agree with, down to the lowest common denominator.
That says nothing about me.
There are lots of 5* hotels which take dirty money from known criminals and celebs who have no class but the people who make pointed references are no better than the people they deride.

crystaltipps Mon 13-May-19 17:08:57

It’ll be marvellous. I bet 90% of the audience will be over 50 and a sea of white faces. Very Essex. They’ll be smoking outside but don’t worry when Nige is dictator you’ll be able to smoke everywhere again and sod the environment.