Confirmatory Vote

Remain did not win the referendum. It doesn't matter how difficult it is to leave the EU; that is what must happen otherwise this country is no better than all the other countries which are considered corrupt and the UK will not be respected on the world stage ever again. If there has to be another vote then the ballot paper should only have leave options on it to chose from.

The EU has taken advantage of the loud voices of Remain advocates in the UK by putting together a rubbish deal when everyone should have accepted the democratic decision of the Referendum. If it had gone the other way, the subject would be a closed book. In 1975, when the country voted to stay in the EU, those who voted to leave were unhappy about the outcome but there were no marches, petitions, court cases, visiting Brussels behind the Prime Minister's back etc. as democracy was respected. After 40 odd years, it was fair that it was time for another vote. All of you who don't believe in democracy because you didn't get the result they preferred should be ashamed of their behaviour.

We have a very weak Prime minister who also does not believe in democracy as her 'so called' deal gives all power to the EU.

Oops Margaret Beckett was talking about him on radio 5 and apparently during the Thatcher/Lawson rivalry he stood at the dispatch box and sang the first line of neighbours.

Both benches collapsed even they smiled apparently.

Class act

But can you see labour doing a deal with them nonnie or Mays deal.

Oh dear this is starting to sound like Noel Edmonds!

Yes a reformed Labour Party would and always has got my vote but not this present lot.

Do you know it’s 25 years since the lovely John smith died.

Now he would have been a fabulous PM.

Maw

I am not defending him anymore than supporting him but I don’t consider him any more of a threat than Corbyn and momentum.

As I say hard right and hard left are equally dangerous.

I admire yvette and wanted her to b leader. I don’t really support her Brexit stance but I know she is acting out of principal and what beloved is right. Not self interest.

mycat I think it would have to be something that MPs would pass so probably whatever deal they can agree with the EU and stay in the EU. I can't see anything else working. Although I prefer to stay in the EU I think simply revoking A50 would be too divisive so it should go back to the EU.

All this talk of TM being a remainer is obfuscation. I have asked for reasons for that statement but like so many other questions to leavers it remains unanswered.

So you admit Farage is filling a dangerous vacuum Mycatisahacker ?
Why are you and others encouraging him then?
There are other valid alternatives such as the Greens, LibDems -or if you are set on Leave, the Labour Party.
Personally a reformed LP with Yvette Cooper at its head would get my vote.

I don’t see any alternative agree.

But what would be on the ballot. If there’s no deal it’s simple remain or leave.

Again

newnanny we are where we are, what would you suggest we do? TM doesn't seem to be able to get her deal through, Labour are not really working on an agreement and MPs won't agree no deal. Have you an alternative to a confirmatory vote? It is much easier for us to say what we don't want but it is now time to be pragmatic about what our choices are.

Yes agree urmstrongran who is going to fill the vaccume that’s the question.

Maw

And the government and opposition parties are doing such a good job are they?

They havnt been implementing any policies since the Brexit debacle. Both are in a bloody awful mess.

It is time for change.

Change U.K. have been very stupid ignoring the Lib Dem’s who actually have an excellent grass roots level and are effective on the ground.

I think change U.K. will fizzle out as there’s too many egos to work together. Chukka, Anna, Heidi all what to lead and what policies do they have but stopping Brexit.

Seriously i think Farrage will do very well because he’s filling a dangerous vaccume.

And wishing him and his supporters away won’t happen. Reality time.

Fair comment Maw
I think I was just trying to illustrate that new parties can spring up and change the political dynamic in a country. Whether that is for better or ill depends I suppose on the voters!

It makes little difference how many votes there are for general public if Parliament refuse to implement results of vote. A GE is needed so people can vote out those who refuse to implement the decision of their constituents.

I think it would be political suecide for labour to cook up s deal. Why should thry really? Theresa got herself into this mess and you can’t blame them to pretend to engage but then say they cant agree.

Corbyn is pretty stupid but those around him arnt

But Urmston you are largely quoting Right wing if not even extreme Right wing parties certainly in Germany, Italy, not to mention Austria (honestly don’t know the situation in Spain) and even Macron set out with mostly what he was against not what he was for .
He too has dramatically lost popularity and support. So prime examples of parties uniting people with a common grievance
Remind you of anywhere we know in the 1930’s?

Exactly newnanny

Yes the Labour Party has been accused of being institutionally anti Semitic.

Look I have no time for Farrage but in my opinion he’s on a par with Corbyn not many labour back bench MPs! People like Jess Phillips are fantastic examples of good labout vakues.

Anyway off thread yes agree op we will probably need a confirmatory vote *but^ what on Earth will be the question?

I voted to leave. My understanding of the confirmatory vote is to offer Leave with May's (Remainer) deal or Remain. To me that is a Hobson's choice, because one to me, is as bad as the other. That does not give leave voters a say at all in how our country moves forward. 17.4 million (largest recorded turnout in UK) voted to leave. Biggest stitch up when parliament votes to give the choice to the people and then they don't like the choice so refuse to implement it. Come the next GE the electorate will not forget the betrayal and will vote accordingly.

gangy is it now a 'party', last I heard it was a 'company'

I must apologise for one of my posts a few days ago. I said I thought NF had failed to be elected as an MP 3 times, I have now been informed of my mistake and told it was 7.

Iam64 Tue 14-May-19 08:25:42 & MaizieD Tue 14-May-19 09:25:07 & MaizieD Tue 14-May-19 09:25:07 I agree with you.

Don't know much about Oswald Mosely but think NF might be using his tactics.

I beg to disagree with your view Maw

New parties are coming from nowhere all around the developed world. President Macron’s En Marche! won a landslide victory in France. Italy is run by an alliance of the Five Star Movement and the League. Germany’s main parties have crumbled as the Greens and Alternative for Deutschland have seen their support rise. Spain has seen parties such as Vox and Ciudadanos take a huge share of the votes.

In the United States, President Trump is so far from traditional Republicanism he is virtually leading a new party.

There is no reason why Britain should be exempt from that.

True, if Theresa May and Jeremy Corbyn cook up a deal, and we leave the EU in June, then the whole issue may simply fade away.
?

Surely Glastonbury was one example of Corbyn adulation?!!

Sadly deluded Firecracker
This reminds me how of the how the US electorate thought Trump would be a refreshing alternative to experienced politicians.
Farage is a one trick pony. Brexit is all he is about, who knows whether he even has policies to offer in the event of a General Election.

I have just been listening to Nigel Farage being interviewed on LBC. He says once the EU elections are over he will be concentrating on GE policies, the registered members (the ones who have paid their £25) will be asked to vote for policies online. Politics is changing for the better.

Oh yes plenty of hero worship for Corbyn

Where, mycat? Just show me one example on this forum. This is a myth; a complete and utter myth. Most of those who want to discuss Labour Party policies will go elsewhere to do so because one or two will just attack Corbyn. It is they who are obsessed and I don't think you can describe it as in a hero worshiping way. Those interested in politics don't get the opportunity to discuss or critique the policies for more than a couple of posts.

But you seem to be admitting that Farage depends on hero-worship. Let's face it, there are no policies and no plan for any sort of "leave" or anything else - or not that he's sharing - so what else is there but a deliberately whipped up personality cult?

Whatever we think of Farage - good, bad or ????. He is the only leader of a party, aiming to carry out the democratic decision, decided by the referendum, of 2016