Britain 'risks heading to US levels of inequality'

For those who need an illustration of what is happening in the UK I suggest that you try to see Ken Loach's film " I am Daniel Blake " which is based upon a true story. It is about a blue collar worker who suffers from heart disease and is unable to work. Despite being provided with a letter from his specialist he is unable to claim benefits. The film documents the trials and tribulations of his attempts to get benefits the eventual outcome is his death from a heart attack.

I agree with Trisher's post. Back in the thirties dockers and labourers would turn up at an agreed rendezvous and would wait to be selected by the gang masters. Many were not but they would turn up day after day.

'starved into working when they shouldn't be'.
Shouldn't be starved or shouldn't be working?
If 'they' had more benefits and could buy more food, would they be content to be unemployed?
It makes no sense.
'unless you have stashed more than your fair share of the country's wealth'?
What is a fair share? If you have worked for your wealth then you're entitled to do with it whatever you choose.
As for shareholders they are the people who support the company and their dividends are paid only if the company makes money, rather like your and my money in the bank which is invested so that we and the bank get paid interest.
Company CEOs are paid for taking the flak, the risks and making decisions.
Leaders always earn more than workers. There have always been and will always be, tiers in society and the nearer the top the more you get paid.
Those who are hungry for success will work hard and those who want a life of idleness will coast along in the slipstream and it's a fact that you don't need the brain of Lloyd George to get on in life.

Urmstongran, isn't it strange that this chant of "work is good" (which sounds like something straight from Animal Farm), only applies to the precariat; those whose employment and income are insecure. Anyone with any level of wealth is exempt. The may have time, food, housing and even no work without being seen as feckless.

Lots of disabled people are perfectly capable of working and do work.

You do not have the right to do what you like with your wealth Gabriella. No one becomes wealthy without the society around them, so that society has the right to tax that wealth in order to maintain a reasonable level of equality.

Do you actually believe that the government policies, which have vastly increased inequality, are the right policies?

To talk about housing as a another aspect of inequality, consider this.
We've had articles and programmes about flooding as people have concreted over their driveways and house-building has taken over large tracts of land which were formerly fields.
The population has grown but the UK is still the same size.
When green belt land is mooted as being suitable for housing to ease the crisis, there is often a hue and cry about our green spaces shrinking which means trees felled and less carbon monoxide being absorbed etc.
You can't have parks and countryside and uninterrupted views if you want to house everyone who lives here and those who arrive to work here because there has to be the infrastructure to support that housing as in more roads, hospitals, schools, shops, recreational facilities...and work opportunities. If houses are built in areas where there is little opportunity to obtain work and decent public transport, people won't move there.
We cannot have it all.

In 1978 I worked evenings as a medical typist transcribing clinic tapes from hospital to local GP surgeries on a zero hour contract trisher. So yes, I do know what I’m talking about! No holiday or sick pay, but the very flexible hours to suit bringing up our two baby daughters suited me just fine and I remained on my ZHC for six years.

Happy days!
?

It’s why my friend’s son in law works in the gig economy now driving a taxi for Über.

I wholly support taxing people at the appropriate rate.

In 1978 I assume you had a husband in full time work Urmstongran so what your wages did was top up a family's income. That's not the same as someone being totally dependent on an unsteady income to support their children. With Uber you are self-employed, bit different to zero hours contracts. Hope your friend's SIL is never ill or he will find out the problems with self-employment.

GracesGranMK3
You don't say what you mean by 'your fair share of the country's wealth'. If you work and make money, that is completely fair and it's totally up to the individual as to how they spend or save the money they earn...after tax, of course.
My ex paid no tax on his salary in Dubai when a resident but, after moving to Ireland for 6 months of the year, he then paid the appropriate tax on worldwide earnings.

Since the referendum we have talked a lot about democracy. We seem to have a very narrow definition of that word. It means more than implementing the wishes of the party/group that won an election/referendum etc. Democracy also relates to equality and fairness but we don't often hear that. I have always found the obsession with wealth in this country obscene. It seems wealth is so important we need to publish a Rich List every year. If we seriously believe that the gap between rich and poor is too great we need to do something about it.

I'm approaching a Full House

I volunteered at a food bank in a poor area. I am not saying this because I think I'm anything special or because I am virtue signalling. I was becoming isolated and needed to get out.

I'm ashamed to say, I had been indoctrinated to some extent to expect scroungers and freeloaders. The people I met were certainly not these things. One very tiny example, a man who had developed knee problems and so couldn't carry on with his physically demanding job. He was in a lot of pain, and had some literacy problems. A relationship had broken down and he had fallen behind with the rent. Have you ever been to a job centre? It's the most demoralising and complicated system. His self esteem was shattered, he was in pain, depressed and in debt. Then follows poor diet, poor choices and so on. Very close to calling it a day.
Have people no compassion, no understanding.?

Lily65
Not everyone who has literacy problems is unable to work.
Not everyone who is disabled is unable to work.
A doctor should sort out the pain issues and a referral to hospital would diagnose the knee problem which could then be addressed.
A visit (with a doctors letter saying why he had to give up his employment and what is happening as regards his knee) to the job centre to apply for benefits including housing and council tax should have been next.
I hope the man followed those procedures and got the help he needed but there are always givers and takers.
You have highlighted one.
I'm possibly much more cynical than you.
That's why people should always save some of their earnings (a recommended guide is 3 months salary) to tide them over rough patches such as the one experienced by the man in your comment.

Well said Greta. To think that democracy was all about one vote on one day misses the point. Sadly the problems often lie with those in the middle who do not seem to understand how it might be to live others lives - or how easy it is to end up in that position. I've no idea why some can and some can't but it is that group who are often most influential when it comes to either understanding or ignoring the democracy of fairness, equality and of whether, on a day-to-day basis, you feel you have a voice or not.

Of course people with literacy problem or disabilities are able to work.

Can you see how issues are interlinked? No money, no bus fares, no transport . Literacy problems, can't read forms, panics, forms pile up. Low mood, eats poorly, more low mood. Depressed, isolates himself, gives up and so on?

I don't believe in a world of givers and takers.

"A doctor should sort out the pain issues" You really don't have any insight into where you lack knowledge, do you Gabriella? Just being dictatorial does not make things happen. Lily had the good grace to admit, as we all should, that there is knowledge we don't have and understanding we have not yet gained. Just opening yourself up to those thoughts would do you no harm in the humanity stakes.

GabriellaG54 That's why people should always save some of their earnings (a recommended guide is 3 months salary) to tide them over rough patches such as the one experienced by the man in your comment
Can you explain exactly how someone does that on a low wage when there is just enough to meet your outgoings, and when if a big bill comes in you have to 'borrow' the rent or food money to pay it?

I think all countries are faced with becoming like each other due to globalization -

Gabriella, your "story" about CEO and leaders .. I imagine I could find myself "comfortable" too with "your" description of what they do .. Hahahaha ..

But that would be too flat-earthy of an idea for me to buy into -- although not the lifestyle, admittedly ..

Could I pretend that there was no global financial crisis of 2007 - 2008 ... ? Or course!

www.insidernj.com/press-release/tully-swain-timberlake-bill-protect-information-federal-employees-affected-partial-government-shutdown-approved-assembly-panel/

It's a brief article pertaining to one facet of what can rapidly happen to individuals and families when faced with sudden financial crisis -- and what one state is taking the initiative to do about it -

Too me, the Bill is an admittance that the government isn't doing its "job" -

3 months savings won't save a person long term- Meaning, even those living within their means aren't protected from financial crisis - The only people protected are the top 1% -

I am a bit fed up with the 'lets sneer at America'.
'
Oh we dont want to be like the Americans.

Our ...... (fill in the blank) is so much better or

'Not more Americanisms'

My uncle emigrated to the USA in the 1960s as did many others.
He worked in a factory and he and my aunt put both their children (boy and girl) through their education system and College (university).

My one cousin is a history professor and his children are both
in professional careers,

My other cousin works for a big bank.

When the ship-yards were closing my uncle got on his 'bike' took a chance in the US.
They were made welcome but were told that if they wanted to get on they would have to work hard.

The wage were/are better than the UK but they do have much less holidays than the UK

My aunt and uncle paid into the health care system (factory wages).
My aunt sadly was struck down with breast cancer in tbe 1980's.
Their health care paid for all her treatment, my Grandparents offered but they had adiquate cover.

My cousins partner has thankfully survived breast cancer and was able to use her health insurance.

We may well agree that Trump is not the best president that the USA has had since independence, but for all its faults (show me a country that hasn't any )
America is still a land of opportunity.

I love our NHS and have on a number of occasions have been very grateful to it.
However there are many GNers living overseas who manage quite well by paying into that countries health care system.

Gracesgran... I was replying to this comment.
In the U.K. whatever your income, you know that you will get good quality world class health care.

I don't think it's as good as Whitemark believes it is. Good when you get it. I've had to pay a lot of money twice privately because of long waiting times and have joined a private scheme. I can't go conpletely private. Others can. This isn't equality. What have I said that isn't clear? (Maybe I'm not explaining myself well. I'm not very good with words)

GG.... Let them eat cake...?

I have collected several American friends on Facebook and have been struck by the way some of them are working two or three jobs to just about manage. It doesn't seem like a great place to live. And of course there is always serious illness - I've spoken to people who have been denied tests they needed because their insurance company decided they weren't necessary, I've spoken to people who haven't been able to go to the consultant they wanted because their insurance wouldn't pay for that particular hospital, and I've even spoken to people who have gone on to risky clinical trials because that way they don't have to pay for all their blood tests!

A doctor friend of DD spent a few months in a hospital in New York. She said that over here a man having a heart attack who needed three stents put in would have it done in one operation. Over there they would do three separate operations so that they got paid three times!

Cherrytree59 - those of us who live in the EU have S1s which prove to our host country that the UK government will pay for our health care.

In France the majority pay into a mutuel which is a top up insurance. Whenever we need medical treatment the state pays a proportion and we pay a smaller proportion which is covered by the mutuel. Should we get a life threatening illness the state pays for everything, once there is a diagnosis. The system works quite well and appointments for referrals are generally much quicker than in the UK. The other difference is that the GPs aren't time restricted - ie appointments will last for as long as is necessary - no restrictions to 6 minutes or whatever the allocated time is now in the UK.