Horrified by Alabama Abortion law

The only 'heartbeat' law needed is this: if a woman has a heartbeat, no-one can interfere with her right to choose what happens to her body.

What can we do?

Have no doubt, wealthy women and the wives, mistresses and daughters of such lawmakers - will always be able to procure safe abortions should they wish. The wrong baby in the wrong womb has often proven to be so inconvenient for conservative politicians.

Poor women and those with little power - will be denied the choices of their wealthy counterparts.

So a return to back street abortions. Banning abortion doesn’t mean less abortions, it just means the same number, but they will be desperately unsafe, and women will die.

Totally spot on urmstrongrsn

You ask what can be done Mycat

I’m heartened to read just now in The Guardian that a Maryland official is threatening to disinvest his state’s $52bn pension fund from Alabama businesses.

?

Good good!!

Money is probably the only thing these monsters care about

What can we do?

I think we need to stand up for the women on this side of atlantic, im the UK a LOT more. A lot. It is disgusting how they get forgotten and brushed under the carpet. People in the rest of UK need to take a bit more interest in NI.

I see lots of memes on facebook about whats happening across the pond but where is the outrage for our fellow citizens in NI?

That we CAN try to do something about!

I agree I told my dds tonight about NI they are 20 and had no idea that the laws in NI were different they are horrified

SirChenjin
My name is Gabriella, not Gabrielle
In answer: legally and safely but only in extreme circumstances, as I have said upthread.
Deformed foetus unlikely to survive, danger to mother's health, child rape...that sort of extreme.
Certainly not because a pregnancy is is in any way 'inconvenient' for either parent.
Suppose a woman in a steady relationship, even a long term one, gets pregnant consensually but then some time later decides that she doesn't want a(nother) child and seeks an abortion even though her partner really wants the baby.
What then?
Considering that men have to contribute to a child's upbringing even though they may not want a child but their partner may have falsely said that she is using/ taking contraceptives, this does not seem like equality to me.
The woman has it in her favour in both those scenarios.
Not all men are bullies.
Not all men are softies.
Nor are all women.
Don't forget that there are many women in congress and senior political and influential positions throughout the world and there are many men who don't agree with the Alabama ruling.

Tar and brush comes to mind.

I wonder what people born alive but with severe disabilities would say to the suggestion that they should have been aborted.

Many of them may well say they enjoy their life.

To assume that someone with a disability would never be able to enjoy life is extremely ableist thinking. I know a man who has MS and had been in a wheelchair for years until recently. He is adamantly against "medical assistance in dying", predicated on the very real fear that eventually it will become an obligation to end your life if you are disabled.

Why is it your job to judge others I wonder, Gabriella? You do seem to see it as your role in life. You judge others on so much, often without any obvious understanding that you too are fallible, frequently and obviously.

I doubt very much that there will ever be an obligation to be "put down " because of illness and disability.
I am close to someone with a disabling illness who wishes very much that we could call for an end to life if we are ill.

Seems that some of us want people to have more options and choices and some other people do not. They want to take control.
I hope that the controllers never get the power. I want people to have options.

Gabriella

Hope I spelt it right?

I had an abortion at 17 we had used condoms and got caught out. For your info my second boyfriend and now my dh of 32 years. It was right for us.

We had 2 beautiful lads then when they were 11/10 we got pregnant willingly.

However blood tests said they wete twins but problems! We decided to have an amino because no way would we allow twins with special needs to be left to our lads when we were gone.

I have 2 friends with Down’s syndrome siblings and it’s not been good for them.

Thankfully our girls are ok but if they water not we would have aborted them.

Because we loved the kids we had and I think bringing disabled kids into time world is selfish for us

But absolutely just our view

See body autonomy matters. So if you are opposed to enforced euthenasia (however unlikely that may be) you should be opposed to forced pregnancy.

Brilliant explanation of the complexities of decision making for everyone who has to contemplate these things Mycat

Suggesting people with disabilities aren't worth the life they've been given is considerably different than choosing to terminate pregnancy-

Suggesting that parents who chose to end a pregnancy due to severe abnormality aren't worth the life they've been given is also different than choosing to terminate a pregnancy-

One is a medical procedure (abortion) and suggesting any of the above individuals isn't the worth the life they've been given is ignorant-

Abortion is not a form of contraception- Please, read?

Birth control (contraception) is designed to interfere with the normal process and prevent the pregnancy that could result. There are different kinds of birth control that act at different points in the process, from ovulation, through fertilization, to implantation. Each method has its own side effects and risks. Some methods are more reliable than others.
There are more different types of birth control available today than ever. They can be divided into a few groups based on how they work. These groups include:

Hormonal methods—These use medications (hormones) to prevent ovulation. Hormonal methods include birth control pills (oral contraceptives), Depo Provera injections, and Norplant.
Barrier methods—These methods work by preventing the sperm from getting to and fertilizing the egg. Barrier methods include the condom, diaphragm, and cervical cap. The condom is the only form of birth control that also protects against sexually transmitted diseases, including HIV (the virus that causes AIDS).
Spermicides—These medications kill sperm on contact. Most spermicides contain nonoxynyl-9. Spermicides come in many different forms such as jelly, foam, tablets, and even a transparent film. All are placed in the vagina. Spermicides work best when they are used at the same time as a barrier method.
Intrauterine devices—Intrauterine contraceptive devices (IUDs) are inserted into the uterus, where they stay from one to 10 years. An IUD prevents the fertilized egg from implanting in the lining of the uterus, and may have other effects as well.
Tubal sterilization—Tubal sterilization is a permanent form of contraception for women. Each fallopian tube is either tied or burned closed. The sperm cannot reach the egg, and the egg cannot travel to the uterus.

Vasectomy—is the male form of sterilization, and should also be considered permanent. In vasectomy, the vas defrens, the tiny tubes that carry the sperm into the semen, are cut and tied off. Thus, no sperm can get into the semen.
A newer and somewhat controversial form of birth control is emergency contraception. This type is used after unprotected intercourse and sometimes is referred to as the "morning-after pill".

Unfortunately, there is no perfect form of birth control. Only abstinence (not having sexual intercourse) can protect against unwanted pregnancy with 100% reliability. The failure rates, which means the rates of pregnancy, for most forms of birth control are quite low. However, some forms of birth control are more difficult or inconvenient to use than others. In actual practice, the birth control methods that are more difficult or inconvenient have much higher failure rates because they are not used regularly or as prescribed.

Description
Most forms of birth control have one thing in common. They are only effective if used faithfully. Birth control pills will work only if taken every day; the diaphragm is effective only if used during every episode of sexual intercourse. The same is true for condoms and the cervical cap. Some methods automatically work every day. These methods include Depo Provera, Norplant, the IUD, and tubal sterilization.
There are many different ways to use birth control. They can be divided into several groups:

By mouth (oral)—Birth control pills must be taken by mouth every day.
Injected—Depo Provera is a hormonal medication that is given by injection every three months.
Implanted—Norplant is a long-acting hormonal form of birth control that is implanted under the skin of the upper arm.
Vaginal—Spermicides and barrier methods work in the vagina.
Intra-uterine—The IUD is inserted into the uterus.
Surgical—Tubal sterilization is a form of surgery. A doctor must perform the procedure in a hospital or surgical clinic. Many women need general anesthesia.

The methods of birth control differ from each other in the timing of when they are used. Some methods of birth control must be used specifically at the time of sexual intercourse (condoms, diaphragm, cervical cap, spermicides). Emergency contraception must be started as soon as possible after intercourse and no more than 72 hours after. All other methods of birth control (hormonal methods, IUDs, tubal sterilization) must be working all the time to provide protection.

In today's news.
Professor Kypros Nicolaides has saved the life of an unborn baby in a ground-breaking operation (in the womb) to correct life-threatening spina bifida, which would have meant paralysis and brain damage.
The mother was offered seversl options including abortion at 20 weeks gestation but she declined, opting for surgery at 27 weeks.
This was 3 decades after the same surgeon saved the mother's life with a blood transfusion through her mother's umbilical cord, itself a pioneering intervention, when she herself was in her mother's womb.
Reasons for caution when considering abortion? Yes.

Mycatisahacker
Naturally, everyone must make up their own minds and, what is right for you is not necessarily right for another woman. Each has to live with the consequences of their choices, as in every aspect of life.
My comment did not cast aspersions on any member here, it simply aired my views on abortion which are right for me.
We judge every single thing in our lives from the food we choose to the people we mix with, from the books we read to the sex, social lives and sornding habits of others.
I'm no different. I freely admit to being judgemental and anyone who says that they never judge are not truth tellers in that regard.

sornding spending

Gabriella, the subject of caution (alone) would be worth it's weight in gold regarding this topic -- as well as the fact that with abortion in place, people (male and female) can be somewhat cavalier when it comes to sex-

However, once pregnant, when determining if abortion is the best option or not people are not so cavalier -- because it's a serious decision-

Removing the opportunity to make that determination is also a serious decision -- and yet the government is becoming all to cavalier (again) regarding what a women can or cannot do-

Amazing story, by the way!

About Professor Kypros Nicolaides ..

"If there is no medical cause for the abortion, then it should be done within the first few weeks."

Problem is, most women don't even know they're pregnant yet in the first few weeks. Missouri has, apparently, passed a law with an 8-week limit - that gives most women about 4 weeks to decide. What about the woman who isn't sure, at first? Or who changes her mind for some reason? Or who is under pressure from her BF or her family to have the baby but isn't sure she wants to? 4 weeks may not be enough to make this very serious decision.

"Professor Kypros Nicolaides has saved the life of an unborn baby in a ground-breaking operation (in the womb) to correct life-threatening spina bifida, which would have meant paralysis and brain damage. "

This^^^ is amazing and beautiful! But....

"The mother was offered seversl options including abortion at 20 weeks gestation but she declined, opting for surgery at 27 weeks."

To me, the word "options" is key here. The mother had a choice, and was trusted to make the best choice for herself and her child. That's what I think every woman in that situation to have - choices.

"Reasons for caution when considering abortion? Yes."

Agreed. But not reasons to deny women the right to choose abortion. (I know you didn't say it was.) Also, "caution" means they may need to think about it for a while. Granted, the few women Iv known who had abortions, knew they were going to do that as soon as they knew they were pregnant. Just like the few single mums Iv known who decided to keep their babies, knew right away, too. But not every woman decides that easily. It's a major decision, and some women need more than just 3 or 4 weeks.