Horrified by Alabama Abortion law

That IS interesting. Hard to know if he really means it though or if he's posturing in case the law gets tweaked - or in case some of his supporters have somewhat more liberal views than the Alabama law. Remember, he has an election to think about next year.

Trump had rather different views 20 years ago, when he said this, according to the BBC. '

"I'm very pro-choice. I hate the concept of abortion. I hate it. I hate everything it stands for. I cringe when I listen to people debating the subject. But you still - I just believe in choice."'

Basically that’s it - he couldn’t give a flying fig about women and choice - it’s all about what suits his political ambitions.

I also wonder, from Trump's previous statement, what he thinks abortion does 'stand for'. That women have had sex with men? That woman have free will?

On another much-mentioned part of this thread, disabled people, no one has commented on this aspect. Disabled women can also have sex and become pregnant.

I know an intellectually disabled woman who, when her parents die, is possibly going to be very vulnerable to being 'taken advantage of', in old-fashioned terms. Does society really want to force someone with the mental age of a pre-schooler to endure an unasked-for pregnancy and childbirth?

SueDonim

That’s such a good point. My friend has a very vulnerable teenage dd. She wanted her to have the contraceptive implant because she goes to a day centre and mixed with lads. She has the mental age of 7/8.

My friend had a hell of s battle with health care professionals to get this fitted because of the girls right to a relationship.

I honestly don’t know what will happen to her when my friends dies. Her siblings don’t want to know and quite rightly have their own lives

That is very true SueDomin. My friend had a grown son with learning difficulties living in a sheltered accommodation with others. She was terrified of him getting one of the young women pregnant because neither he nor they could have coped with it. She also had a battle with the staff over this as she was told he had to have freedom to make relationships if he wanted. This was some years ago so I would hope women in such situations are better protected nowadays.

Every side of this argument reveals a certain amount of disregard for the human condition- From both sides of the political isle, and in every day life, there's always someone flexing their muscle about one thing or another from the position of being above others either singly or as part of a particular group- So it should be no different when it comes to abortion- But there's more to it than just that- Men have always taken advantage of the fact that women can become pregnant despite the fact that it takes 2 to reproduce- Yet despite that math, men (in general) have perfected slipping through loopholes and out of the equation -- through the enabling uterus- Then with a broad brush, cover their tracks, falling into the goosestep of imprinting the practice one generation after the next, from one culture to the next, where they're adored for it-

But not all women fall for it- Nor men- Even when forced- People do plenty of things unwillingly- Frequently without much notice- Emphasis on much- When much adds up, and becomes headline news, one remembers their past reluctance to do something other than what's expected- Are you really going to allow anyone to dictate what can be done to anothers body without their consent?

And if it comes down to that, then there has to be a balance where if a woman loses her right to privacy then men lose theirs, too -- and be forced to donate their DNA to a national data base- All males, no exceptions-

They arnt Lazigirl

The DNA can be used to convict, determine paternity, to sterilize, to garnish wages, social security, and identify-

It won’t happen though rosecarmel

Mycatisahacker, it won't happen if we don't lay it out on the table and discuss it-

Any man who refuses to donate his DNA, it will taken from him by force-

I don’t disagree with you in the slightest but lawyers will intervene to make shed loads of cash. Poor men’s right to choose!!!!

Bloody ironic isn’t it???

Here's a man trying to wriggle out of his commitments, a former king, no less.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-48280203

I’ve no sympathy with abusive feckless men but I’m not sure a national data base of DNA is the way to go. If men have to give a sample, so must women and anyone who has risen above being identified by gender, those folks who deny they can be defined by gender. It feels rather Like an assumption we are all potential problems - we aren’t. The majority behave responsibly and obey laws. Let’s not assume everyone is a potential criminal or will abandon parental responsibilities

If the goal is to protect what rights one has left after being forced to forfeit ones right to decide if they want a baby or not, then it would be beneficial to have a national data bank not based on the assumption that everyone is a criminal but predominantly to identify the father of the child that the woman is forced to have-

Without it, women would once again be subjected to the influence of men and the women that they influence to do their dirty work for them-

Attached is an interesting graph, the source is also informative-

As for having babies, that ship has sailed -- but it hasn't for my daughter or grand daughters-

SueDonim, perfect article .. perfect- Precisely to the point-

Iam - do you think that the majority of men will continue to behave responsibly and obey laws if women are forced to continue with pregnancies that neither want? I'm not so sure - I suspect that one of the outcomes of this legislation will be more children being born into fractured or broken relationships, and more men shirking their financial responsibilities resulting in greater levels of poverty.

How different all this would be, I imagine, if men were the ones who got pregnant!

Indeed it would starlady and all this nonsense about natural childbirth (ie this excruciating pain is fine for you to endure for hours) would just not exist.

Many years ago...aged 17..l got pregnant. My parents were horrified. I had no choice. I was taken to a private hospital...no counselling before or after. That was it. I was made to stay in for a week as obviously l had murderer written on my forehead. I always wish that baby 'happy birthday 'on its due day...would have been 40yrs this year. How l wish l was stronger years ago and had run away. I will never forget....

Blacktabby

Starlady, the Trump administration is currently in the process of overhauling the courts, appointing as many conservative (Republican) judges and justices as possible in advance of the 2020 election-

Trump claims to be Pro-Life all the way but insists exceptions should be made-

But his claim that exceptions should be made could be a ploy, offered to gain votes- His stacking of the judicial system with conservatives could reflect his hidden agenda to overturn Roe v. Wade -- and also possibly subject the country to conservative decisions for the next 30 years-

Blacktabby2 I am so sorry you went through that, it was not your choice.

mycatisahacker I know this is a bit off topic but what makes you say " all this nonsense about natural childbirth (ie this excruciating pain is fine for you to endure for hours) would just not exist."

If you mean that men are denying pain relief for women during childbirth then that would be very wrong, but does that actually happen?

Childbirth without medical intervention is perfectly possible, it is not "nonsense", but again, it should be up to the woman concerned to make those choices.

I read something very worrying in Saturday's Guardian. Apparently the Trump administration has cut off funding to any overseas organisation or clinic that will not agree to a complete ban on discussing abortion. the US have extended the gag stating that any organisations counselling women on abortion using funds from elsewhere........even a donor in another country will no longer be eligible for any US funding. The diktat applies to all global health organisations, HIV and children's charities must sign the pledge, as well as those running sexual and reproductive health clinics It's worth reading the whole article by Guardian's health editor, which is truly shocking, that this ruling from the US can have such far reaching and dire consequences for women's health overseas.