The Labour Party

Grandad

" As for Tom Watson now having any chance of becoming leader, that I feel is pure fantasy due to his recent self inflicted problems that in all probability will result in him losing the position of Deputy Leader and possibly facing deselection by his constituency party. "
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'RECENT' problems'

The Labour Party was happy to keep him when Watson was involved in the Falkirk vote rigging scandal, when Watson used Parliamentary Privilege to spout his lies over a Westminster peadophile network etc.

Is this not sweet Irony ? At the time of his involvement in the Falkirk debacle Tom Watson said:-

" We've had nearly two decades now of this political media nexus where political leaders think politics has to be compressed in the centre ground. The electoral formula that got NEW LABOUR elected was successful for its times, but we were left stranded in an arid desert of pragmatism, and we need a route map out of that."

Well he got his wish, CORBYN became Leader.

I have just refreshed my memory of the Falkirk voting scandal and KERRY MURPHY was suspended for her part from Labour , she was Tom Watsons office manager and now is one of Corbyns top aids.

Fast forward and now he is one of the Labour MP's who should have been on the Corbyn/Momentum HOSTILE LIST, one of those bloody Blairites it appears he is now thought of / dispensible. Couldn't make it up as they say.!

As for deselections we have been discussing that ever since the Jeremy for Leader/Momentum/Labour Party was established , years of denial by some posters followed but eventually there was no option but believe that was the intention, the game was afoot. If Watson is deselected his Parliamentary seat would be filled by another Momentum member no doubt. After all Momentum/Unions now run the nuts and bolts of the Labour Party.

Watson has made his own choices and ironically I believe Watson has ' possibly ' shot himself in the foot by taking on the GREAT LEADER at the wrong time. Or maybe he has friends in high places hiding under the radar, who knows?

Grandad

" The Blair days are over, the remaining Blairites in the party will soon be shown the door (hopefully) and in that the Labour movement and party has returned to its core root beliefs."
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So you keep saying. Yep it sure has , the far left days of the 70/80's have returned. You are correct that is why Labour membership became so popular with return members who hailed that era.

So much for Labour being a BROAD CHURCH and by god the call by Corbyn for a KINDER POLITICS melted like snow on a fire and at the same speed.

The party returned to its core labour roots for the 1983
election, the voters said ‘no thanks’

The Blairites stood in the 1997 election and the voters said
‘Yes please’.

Anniebach, voters stood in the 2017 General Election where Theresa May believed she would wipe the Labour Party out, and what happened, she lost the Tories their overall Parliamentary majority. That ultimately led to her losing the position of Prime Minister.

Now will the Tories call yet another General Election under the same delusion

But labour lost , second past the winning line means ‘you lost’ , what use is ‘nearly won’

Iam64 Quote[ Several posters have commented that their friendship groups are discussing desperation with the current leadership and the need for a new leader.] End Quote.

Iam64, I am unsure of what you mean when you state in regard to "Forum members "friendship groups." Are the foregoing Labour Party members or even affiliate members?

I ask that question because a political Party belongs to its members, and in the case of the Labour party also now it's affiliate membership. Therefore if these "friendship groups" are not members or in affiliate membership of the Labour movement, their comments will have no effect on any decisions made or what persons are elected to any office.

The only way for anyone to have a real effect on the actions of the Labour Party is to join the movement, attend the meetings (either physical or online) and make their views known there.

As with the Conservative party, it is the current membership who own the organisation that has chosen Boris Johnson as leader, and I have no doubts that should a leadership challenge emerge in the Labour party then that membership would again elect Jeremy Corbyn as leader.

And that's the way it should be with ALL political parties.

Grandad - my own friendship group involves a large number of current labour members. My husband is still a member and remains active in our local party. Twenty of us were together recently, shared gloom about austerity and all that accompanies it. Many of that group are former members of the party, only two still are. Only one of that group felt confident she'd vote Labour next time, despite the horror we all feel at the possibility of another conservative government.

Another poster commented earlier of a similar discussion within a group of her friends.

I expect Grandad you will be pleased that so many of us doubters have left the party. Maybe you can dismiss us with the worst term of abuse you seem able to muster, as "Blairites". In order to make positive change, Labour has to win the next election. You may be confident that Jeremy Corbyn can do that, I'm afraid I doubt it.

Could have written the same Iam64 - thanks.

Iam64, it has to be remembered that when Jeremy Corbyn became the leader of the Labour Party over four hundred thousand then joined the party. Obviously, some may have left the organisation due to not liking that leader or the more left-leaning policies and structural changes he brought about.

I am also not confident that the Labour party will win any forthcoming General Election that may come about in the near future. However, what I do applaud in the Labour Party is the fact that the grassroots members and the affiliate organisations that have supported the Palimentery Labour party for over one hundred years now once again have a real say in the formation of policy and day to day running of the party.

Blair totally ignored the wishes of the above members throughout the period when he and his cohorts were the executives of the parliamentary party. That has now been changed and will not be allowed to return under the current structure of the movement, and that's the way it should be and remain.

The foregoing will be placed before the wider electorate in due course. Whether that electorate accepts or rejects the above is a matter for those that vote. However, I do believe that even if the Labour Party do not win in any forthcoming General Election, those basic policies and reformed structure of the Labour movement will not change, and the same will remain on offer to the electorate into the future.

It was then Grandad - we are now in a totally different situation- and a massive crisis.

And refusing to compromise and make alliances, and change Leader, will be all ticketyboo, and the basic policies and structures will not change - and what then? No Deal Brexit and years and years of massive damage to our economy and of course, all the great things said economy pays for, and benefit the less well off in our country a lot more than those who can pay private. You will feel all cosy and warm and self-righteous - and watch the country go down like a lead balloon. Really?

And labour will keep losing elections

re keeping up LP membership.
I was a member of the LP from the early 70s to the late 80s.
I rejoined to vote for Corbyn as leader - I did specify 'only if he could unite the party' which he hasn't done.
When my membership expired last year I filled in forms online to re-join but their secretarial system must be very inefficient as I was never accepted. So I gave up.
But I still get pms from Momentum about their events

The above discussion reminds me of one that we had back in the 80s. We were on holiday in Tuscany at a small hotel and one evening shared a table with two other couples. One of the men was a manager at a Fords plant and one was a bank manager. One of the women was a novelist who wrote historic family sagas and did very well out of it. I still see her name at airports and charity shops now. We were discussing politics with three people who voted Tory; I can't remember how the novelist voted. Anyhow, her father was a Nottinghamshire miner and a strong Labour supporter. Her father didn't recognise that the lives of us post war babies were very different to those of his co-workers. We had free healthcare, free orange juice and access to good schools. In the sixties, as young adults (in the south east) it was easy to rent flats (although they were pretty grim) and to find employment. We wanted more out of life than many of our parents' generation. Many of us achieved decent careers and acquired wealth to a varying degree in the form of houses and/or pensions.

Tony Blair and his fellow MPs recognised these changes and also that many people from working class backgrounds had become Tories and he hoped to gain the middle ground with his policies and possibly convert some of these new Tories. Sadly that wasn't to be because to become a Tory to many people of working class origins was a sign that they'd made it. I find this interesting because most of my friends and acquaintances who come from more middle class backgrounds are LP members or supporters and the reason for this is they want other people to have their opportunities and experiences. And no, they didn't all leave school, get grants and go to uni.

So, I'll end by saying that I hope all the LP supporters who say they won't vote Labour again because of Corbyn will change their minds because we will be facing an extreme right wing Tory government that could win the next election.

Fennel, you joined only if Corbyn could unite the party.

And still want to stay in the party even though it is so
divided ?

Obviously, some may have left the organisation due to not liking that leader or the more left-leaning policies and structural changes he brought about.

That may be true, Grandad, but many have left because of the Labour Party's ambivalent stance on Brexit. They don't have a problem with its social policies, just with the perceived fence sitting. You may argue that the Brexit stance is party policy, agreed at Conference but it's an argument that holds no water with more 'detached' voters.

Indeed Maizie. Conference was a very long time ago, in very different times. Sometimes emergencies and crisises mean you just have to adapt- or go down.

And still want to stay in the party even though it is so
divided ?

desperate times require desperate actions. I would vote Labour without hesitation if it meant keeping Boris and ERG out, and No Deal Brexit. I would however much much prefer an alternative if we can get a significant alliance to secure the above.

Many centre left have left the party and as grandad1943 proudly posts often, the party will be rid of them all soon.

So why should I vote for a party which I worked damned hard for for over 50 years but now wants to be rid of those like me who are not far left .

The choice now is far right or far left , both are a nightmare

some nightmares are even worse than others - and in desperate situations you just have to make a choice ...

Annie - that's my irrational nature. Like you I grew up in a coalmining town.
I could never support Tory values.

Fennel I will never vote Tory . We have a by election here this week, I was going to vote for the Lib candidate but was shocked when she refused to say where she lived.

So have decided not to vote, feel guilty but no choice

Bit late in on this discussion, but I will never vote Tory, never. I am for Labour, funny enough I believe in their policies and some will say I am mad but I do. JC will not be leader for ever, things move on. Will I vote Labour in the GE, well that is the question I am a firm Remainer and the only party who has opted to stay is the Lib Dem.

So there lies the the problem, who do I vote for, I am sure I am not alone

Anniebach, no one wishes to rid the Labour Party of any member whose asperation is to see it's core policies carried out and also accepts the democratic and overwhelming election of its current leader.

However, the above has not been the case with a number of MPs in the Parliamentary Labour Party. They continuously carry out a policy of near sabotage against Jeremy Corbyn and those in his office.

In the above, I would sight such persons as Margret Hodge who even when invited to a private meeting with Corbyn to discuss her discontent, then covertly recorded all that was stated in the hope that Corbyn would say something in that private frank discussion that could cast him in poor light in Britains right-wing media.

Further such actions could be sighted by other Labour MPs, but that would make this post far too long. However, it has to be remembered that such behaviour has been going on for over three years now, and those in the broader Labour movement outside of the Parliamentary party are demanding that those perpetrating such behaviour are acted against.

The above demands have brought forward changes to the Labour Party rules that allow Constituency Parties much more freedom of action in deselecting Labour MPs who do not accept the present policies and democracy as expressed by the majority in the movement.

The Media have been reporting that a substantial number of Labour Party MPs have now cancelled their summer holidays to spend that time in rebuilding their links with whatever Constituency Party they are responsible too.

We can only hope that those working relationships are rebuilt, and that all-round cooperation and respect is restored within those bodies. Should it not be, I feel we shall all witness a substantial number of Labour MPs being "shown the door" in late summer and even perhaps while the Party Delegate Conference is being held.

As unpalatable as the above would be, it is accepted by many in the Broader Labour movement (including myself) that the foregoing must be carried out, as the present situation cannot democratically be allowed to continue.

For those who wish to see a change in the leadership of the Parlimentery Party there is always the option of bringing forward a vote of no confidence, and then allow the membership to decide in a leadership ballot if they wish to see Jeremy Corbyn continue as leader.

It is as straightforward as that, but the undemocratic sabotage of the present leadership and policies by a number of Labour MPs for their own self-serving gains has to be brought to an end.

Grandad

" It is as straightforward as that, but the undemocratic sabotage of the present leadership and policies by a number of Labour MPs for their own self-service"
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Yet Conservative MP's who do like wise are deemed to be honest, trustworthy, showing sense and Labour welcomes them.

Perhaps if the Margaret Hodges of the Labour Party had not incurred the wrath of the anti_semetic behaviour aroused and reported since Corbyn became Leader they would never had a problem to deal with.

Grandad1943 you have bragged the Labour Party is back to it’s socialist roots yet will rid the party of the centre left.

The Labour Party was always a broad church, no longer, if
your not far left your out.

If only Blair and Brown had ditched ‘the broad church’ we would be free of Corbyn .