Labour anti-semitism

Well I guess Margaret Hodge knows more about the origins of these messages then we do or the police and commission will. Let’s hope so.

I completely disagree with you over the hard left and the hard right.

Both are unpleasant, dictatorial, hateful racist and often mysogynistic.

We are not talking wolfie Smith here are we.

I hear that the Islamic council, is requesting that the EHCR look into islamaphobia in the Tory party.

This country is going to the dogs

How many Hard Left people do you actually know? The ones I have met are friendly not dictatorial and in fact are willing to listen to others. We are talking educated knowledgeable people who have a different perspective on history and sometimes are much better informed than most.

trisher

I suspect these nice people are not hard left but true thinkers and philosophers and good for them.

I can’t see these people being anti semetic or racist or maybe they have 2 faces.

I couldn’t be friends with racists or bullies from any political persuasion as I suspect you couldn’t either.

But they sure exist.

is It coincidence that anti semetism and bullying has come sbout since Corbyn became leader?

I knew many miners who were members in the Communist Party and definitely not racist, class war definitely but racism no.

Who / what has brought this about in a party that welcomed
all

Sorry but it stems from Corbyn becoming leader , and the formation of Momentum, is Corbyn fearful ? Is he trapped?

And do you think I live in a bubble?

I grew up in Handsworth to working class parents on a council estate in the 70s/80s

What I know about racists and bigots would make your hair curl and I expect in that of the wolfie Smith crew you know.

Yes agree Annie politics should have no truck with violence of racism. Of any persuasion

I feel so sad

Oh they are hard left Mycatisahacker regularly offer me the Socialist worker are members of a revolutionary socialist group and fund raise for them. I suspect there are more racists and bigots in the centre of all parties than there are on the far left. It's nothing to do with political beliefs really. I've met some when I was teaching.

trisher nobody is saying that all hard left people are disgraceful in their outlook or what they say, but it seems that quite a few are, unfortunately.

I'm coming to the conclusion that Corbyn is 'not right bright' as we used to say. He has an emotional attachment about the wrongs against the Palestinians (partially true) . But hasn't the flexibility of mind to consider the historical reasons, feelings of Jews etc.
I don't think he's inherently a 'bad' man. Just elected into the wrong job.
But who can replace him?

I never said all hard left I said some and defiantly some on the far right.

With respect reading the socialist worker Is very popular amongst students. I used to read it too.

They are not the hard left I am talking about

Students have always read The Socialist Worker, part of their dreams of becoming a Che Guevara, they get their degree and a good job and then worry they will be taxed unfairly.

Fennel well I can't understand either so please can you explain to me how the history of the Jews in any way justifies the mistreatment of Palestinian children and the creation of conditions worse than the Middle ages in a country? One would imagine that people who have suffered under despots would have some degree of commitment to human rights for everyone but apparently not the Israeli government.

These are not "students" except to the extent that they have open minds and listen and learn. Some are working as everything from care assistants to lecturers others are not working. They live fairly alternative lives but they pay taxes.
Strange isn't it you refuse to accept any alternatives to the narrow ideas you have about society. Still I suppose it's an age thing!

trisher - I could say so much on this that I don't know where to start. But it's not relevant tom our UK situation.
The main thing - the current Israeli govt. under Netanyahu is rightwing - fairly extreme. That's why they they love Trump.
The leftwing in Israel sympathise with the Palestinians.
But this is a simplistic explanation . There's much more to it than that.

trisher you are the one with a closed mind, that certainly is clinging to narrow thinking, pity you had to stoop to a bitchy personal comment.

Definition of communism - poverty for all , with some exceptions

Annie : 'Diversion , thread title ‘ Labour anti - semetism'

not at all, I am really interested as to why anti-semetism in the LP seems to be so important, and yet Islamophobia in TP seems to be inexistant and/or not important.

They are both sickening- and yet the second is totally ignored. For individuals it may have to do with personal experience- but generally? I have no Jewish relative or close friend, for instance- but many Muslims, who have told me about their experiences, some of which I have witnessed.

I know all that Fennel I also know that many members of the original group who set up Israel were almost communist and that they opposed the Zionists who gained power. I just don't understand why anyone left or right wing would inflict such punishments. And whilst they behave as they do I, like Corbyn, can only support the oppressed people.

Me too, but the whole problem came from the misguided 1948 declaration of independence. Which meant well, but disregarded the rights of the Arabs who had lived there originally.

The British had a lot to do with it as well.

Have you read The Lemon Tree fennel?

No I haven't, Whitewave. But I've read a lot, mostly by Jews. about the hundreds of years that Arabs and Jews lived together mostly peaceably in the Holy Land.
I don't like to call it Israel or Palestine.
As they did in the North African countries. Their beliefs and customs aren't far apart.

It is so sad. Like you I have read the history of that area. That course done by The Holocaust Museum was excellent and taught me a huge amount, not least giving me confidence to criticise the Israeli Government, just as would any government. I am perfectly confident that I can criticise Zionism without it being in any way anti-Semite.

ps I should say 'we'. I converted to Judaism 30 years ago.
Still puzzling it all out.

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