Gransnet forums

News & politics

Labour anti-semitism

(929 Posts)
Anniebach Tue 28-May-19 12:04:55

The equality and human rights commission have launched
an investigation

Anniebach Sat 01-Jun-19 13:03:39

Who has quoted Margaret Hodge?

No opinions on the accusations by Red Pete (he chooses to call himself that)

GracesGranMK3 Sat 01-Jun-19 13:04:23

I certainly believe what she said about Blair to be true Annie

Anniebach Sat 01-Jun-19 13:43:36

Really GracesGran ? Then We certaintly can’t condemn capitalism anymore

You believed all she said or only what she said re Blair ? 😀

Anyway will Red Pete be saved from being thrown out of the party ?

Grandad1943 Sat 01-Jun-19 14:25:34

Anniebach, Urmstongran, has posted very recent quotes and accusations from Marget Hodge in this thread, and that I have commented on in my above post

In regard to Peter Willsman then like many others, I thoroughly condemn what he has stated, especially in the light of having apologised to Jenney Formby for previous outrageous comments. It was her that recommended to the National Executive that he should be allowed to remain on that body due to the "sincere personal assurance" given to her that no such comments would ever occur again. Therefore, if all that has been alleged is correct, he should be expelled from the party.

However, I also find that Willman's statements pale into insignificance when placed against recent Islamophobic comments made by senior members of the Conservative Party.

In the above, the Conservative party are under great pressure to suspend two serving councillors who made anti-Islam comments. One of those statements is alleging that a councillor has written on Twiter and other social media that "all 11-year-old girls should be frightened of Islam."

The above, if correct, I find outrageous and yet the Tory party will not even open an internal investigation into Islamophobia in that party despite ever-growing evidence, while at the same time condemning anti-semitism in the Labour Party.

Now let's wait for the "diversion of thread" and "nothing has been proven" posts from the usual blinkered forum members.

Link to the above alegations can be found here:-

Anniebach Sat 01-Jun-19 14:42:53

Diversion of thread

Grandad1943 Sat 01-Jun-19 14:47:03

Anniebach grin

trisher Sat 01-Jun-19 14:54:48

Definition of "diversion of thread"-anything Annie can't tag left wing anti-semitism, criticism of Corbyn or rubbishing the Labour party onto.

Anniebach Sat 01-Jun-19 14:58:47

As there is such a great need to have a discussion on alleged
Islamophobia in the Tory Party why not a thread on the topic?

Grandad1943 Sat 01-Jun-19 15:31:39

Anniebach Quote [As there is such a great need to have a discussion on alleged Islamophobia in the Tory Party why not a thread on the topic?] End Quote

As the Subject is a matter of great concern to the Electorate and both party executives (or should be), then far better to have it debated here in one thread, so as to have a comprehensive discussion of the severity of the problem in both parties.

GracesGranMK3 Sat 01-Jun-19 15:33:13

I do wish we could have a thumbs up "I agree" button. Consider it pressed please Trisher.

Anniebach Sat 01-Jun-19 15:33:59

I disagree but understand why you wish to draw discussions from anti semetism in the Labour Party , distraction

Anniebach Sat 01-Jun-19 15:34:57

Post not poster

Iam64 Sat 01-Jun-19 20:43:56

Grandad, thanks for your clear comments on the issue of Peter w’s Anti Semitic comments.
I agree with you on the need for the Tories to be named and shamed on islamophobia. Racist oppressive views are loathsome,no matter how they’re dressed up in the context of Palestine or suicide bombers.

Anniebach Sat 01-Jun-19 21:32:35

I think it a mistake to compare two racist comments and dismiss one as ‘pales into a insignificance compared’ to the other.

It’s like saying he only cut his wife’s lip , the other one gave his wife two black eyes.

As all abuse is wrong, all racist smears are wrong, big danger in saying one isn’t as vile as the other,

trisher Sun 02-Jun-19 12:47:54

But if the man blacking his wife'seyes is being ignored and the one whose wife had a cut lip is being subjected to a police investigation surely some comparison should be made. After all investigating all racism is vitally important and ignoring one means the question of equality arises.

Anniebach Sun 02-Jun-19 13:05:39

Yes all should be investigated,

I disagree with the comment that one racist comment pales in insignificance to another racist comment , do you trisher?

whywhywhy Sun 02-Jun-19 13:08:12

The Labour Party has changed so much over the years. I think we need to get rid of the two Main parties and start again.

Anniebach Sun 02-Jun-19 13:11:37

The two major parties need to move forward not backward in time

GrannyGravy13 Sun 02-Jun-19 13:23:57

Rachel Riley (countdown) sues Labour complaints chief Laura Murray over anti-semetism tweet.

Laura Murray is stakeholder manager to JC and daughter of trusted JC advisor Andrew Murray.

Anniebach Sun 02-Jun-19 13:35:50

Good grief, the complaints chief makes an anti semetic tweet ,

GrannyGravy13 Sun 02-Jun-19 13:49:34

Anniebach it’s all over the Internet.

Anniebach Sun 02-Jun-19 13:59:38

GrannyGravy I did google it but only found a piece in the times, not all because one has to subscribe

trisher Sun 02-Jun-19 14:08:04

It is very complicated. It seems Owen Jones posted a tweet about a Neo-nazi having an egg thrown at him saying it was what Nazis should expect RR then retweeted when an egg was thrown at Corbyn saying it was so true. LM then accused her of calling Corbyn a Nazi and attacked her Jewish heritage. I don't think either is acceptable.

Grandad1943 Sun 02-Jun-19 14:08:47

Well, some are certainly scraping the bottom of the barrel regarding anti-Semitism in the Labour Party as the Rachel Riley v Laura Murray "threatened" law action over an anti-semitism tweet was first reported on the tenth of March this year. As far as I am aware, nothing further has been brought forward on the issue Since that date.

However, still no action by the Conservative Party has been forthcoming regarding the two senior Tory councillors who have been making very islamophobic statements one of which it is alleged advised: "that all eleven-year-old girls should be frightened of Islamic people."

That was reported only two days ago and still no action in Tory ranks


Anniebach Sun 02-Jun-19 14:23:30

Pales into insignificance does it !

Anniebach Sun 02-Jun-19 15:08:50

Jess Phillips

‘ perhaps we should rename our disciplinary process
“Mates Rates”, if your mates with the leader don’t worry you can do what you like . I knew this had happened so no surprise. Our complaints process needs completely removing from any factional skates and influence “

Iam64 Mon 03-Jun-19 07:37:35

I've always wondered why Jess Phillips isn't more popular amongst the so called 'left' in the Labour Party. I read yesterday that she's part of the Labour Friends of Israel group and that means anything she says is to be dismissed.

I gave a talk to a group at one of the local Macibi centres, focussed on my working life. Afterwards when I was thanked, I was presented with a drawing inscribed "friend of Israel". Does this rule me out of making any contribution to the debate on anti semitism?

GracesGranMK3 Mon 03-Jun-19 07:52:19

When did the thread fascism set in? Is there really a rule that says we may not, in any way, go off topic? I can't find it.

GrannyGravy13 Mon 03-Jun-19 08:04:16

I am going off topic looks like David Prescott (son of John Prescott) has apparently been suspended from LP and aid to JC for repeated sexual misconduct !!!

Iam64 Mon 03-Jun-19 08:05:10

GG13, I noticed on line this morning, he'd been accused but at the point I was reading, hadn't been suspended. Oh dear what a mess our politics is in.

Grandad1943 Mon 03-Jun-19 08:16:50

Jess Phillips is very popular among the affiliate activists in the broader Labour movement, especially the trade union movement were her support for more women to be elected to the most prominent positions has met with high approval.

That support has been with Jess Phillips since the time she resigned from the Labour Party during the years of the Blair premiership gaining her a reputation as a person of great personal principle.

However, those on this forum that believe that Phillips if she became Leader would then lead the Labour Party towards a more centrist path should I feel think again. In that, Phillips recently called on Jeremy Corbyn to be "more socialist" in his leadership of the party. Now, that really has set her up as the "golden woman" of the left.

However, her ability to be able to "get along" with those with a wide range of views across not only the Labour party but also other parties has often been well demonstrated. Reports that Phillips has often been seen having a drink with Jacob Rees Mogg and his friends in the House of Commons Bars are often to be found

Who would not wish to be around that table having a listen to the conversation? grin

Anniebach Mon 03-Jun-19 08:32:56

Jess Phillips said her parents stopped paying her membership subscription . She became an MP in 2015,

I agree Corbyn should move from the far left and become more socialist

Grandad1943 Mon 03-Jun-19 08:45:13

Anniebach, I believe that when Jess Phillips stated that Jeremy Corbyn should become "more socialist" in his leadership of the party, she was referring to such matters as only two industries are named to be nationalised in current Labour Party policy.

The above are the railways and water supply companies, but Jess Phillips is reported as wishing to see all the Utility Supply industries re-nationalised.

Anniebach Mon 03-Jun-19 08:49:10

You may believe what you choose granddad1943.

Grany Mon 03-Jun-19 09:16:51

Has Israel been covertly fuelling claims of an "anti-Semitism crisis" purportedly plaguing Britain's Labour Party since it elected a new leader, Jeremy Corbyn, three years ago?

That question is raised by a new freedom of information request submitted this week by a group of Israeli lawyers, academics and human rights activists.

They suspect that two Israeli government departments – the ministries of foreign affairs and strategic affairs – have been helping to undermine Corbyn as part of a wider campaign by the Israeli government to harm Palestinian solidarity activists.

Such claims have been rife despite statistics showing that the party has less of a problem with anti-Semitism than both the ruling Conservative Party and British society generally.

Yes also the right wing in the UK, including the billionaires who run the press and most of the media, and the BBC.

A decent Labour Leader Labour Party will never get an easy ride from the establishment

Anniebach Mon 03-Jun-19 09:19:18

Here we go, a right wing plot , same old

lemongrove Mon 03-Jun-19 09:25:55

Yes Grany I expect Israel has forced Labour MP’s, activists and councillors to make those anti semitic comments, emails and tweets, probably at gunpoint!

GrannyGravy13 Mon 03-Jun-19 09:42:12

I am totally at ease with criticism of the Conservative Party, especially the “numpties” at the moment, was disgusted when the 2 Tory MPs had the whip restored so that they could vote on the WA, having voted Tory all my life.

Unfortunately to criticise JC or LP on GN one must steady yourself for a “verbal lynching”

Who is the nasty party????

Grany Mon 03-Jun-19 10:06:20

Do we have a democracy? Doesn't look like it does it?

Here is a link to shady dealings by government.

The Tories have always been the nasty party for the rich few not the many. We stand and fight for Labour and socialism against neoliberal establishment

Anniebach Mon 03-Jun-19 10:13:48

The far left are making it the nasty party, bullying, lies, hypocrisy, this is not the Labour Party, it is the momentum party.

‘A decent Labour Leader will never get an easy ride from the establishment ‘, ?

Michael Foot had a rough ride and the mocking was disgusting. Corbyn has brought the criticism on himself,
if a Tory leader had said ‘I was there but I don’t know if I was involved ‘ they would deserve mocking. If they pulled a stunt sitting on the floor of a train, deserved.

GrannyGravy13 Mon 03-Jun-19 10:36:47

Grany your post in my opinion backs up mine.......LP puppet masters Momentum/Len McCluskeys with JC as its puppet!!!

GrannyGravy13 Mon 03-Jun-19 10:38:41

I accept all opinions and people’s right to have them......Unfortunately not many if any LP members/supporters offer me the same courtesy??

Grany Mon 03-Jun-19 10:39:23

You don't get it do you Annie? The establishment don't want a Labour government so Labour supporters have a fight on. It was the establishment that stopped a socialist Michael foot becoming leader. They are doing the same with Corbyn with lies and smears from MSM

Jeremy Corbyn has insisted that the wreath was laid for Palestinian and Tunisian victims of an Israeli attack on Tunisian soil in 1985, an operation that was denounced by most Western leaders at the time.
And Traingate the owner did not show the real verson of what occurred that the train was packed. There is another video showing this train to be packed as Corbyn correctly reported as most privately run trains are nowadays.

Anniebach Mon 03-Jun-19 10:43:17

The establishment stopped Michael Foot becoming leader ?

Really? Who was the leader of the Labour Party in the 1983
general election ? No one told Michael he wasn’t the leader

Grany Mon 03-Jun-19 10:45:59

Stopped Michael Foot becoming Prime Minister

Anniebach Mon 03-Jun-19 10:56:57

Sorry , rubbish, the voters didn’t want Michael as PM, the voters were angry over the strikes and didn’t want a far left

All these excuses ‘the establishment didn’t want’, you are saying voters don’t have the capability to think for themselves

GracesGranMK3 Mon 03-Jun-19 11:07:47

You don't get it do you Annie? The establishment don't want a Labour government so Labour supporters have a fight on. (Mon 03-Jun-19 10:39:23)

The problem is Grany that AB really doesn't get it. She doesn't realise that, whatever she thinks about Corbyn, she is currently doing the establishments work. Sadly, I don't think she ever will. With each post, there is a little more destruction of the party she claims to belong to and love, and yet she never asks herself why most of the people who agree with her are not LP members but Tory voters. This sort of antipathy makes it a lost cause I am afraid. Whoever thought one little old ladies hatred, of one man she doesn't actually know, could produce so much vitriol?

JennyB Mon 03-Jun-19 11:15:35

Interesting info about Michael Foot came up yesterday at the Hay Literary Festival during a talk by Ben Macintrye. He was revealed as a paid Soviet agent by Gordievsky, who was a voluntary double agent for the UK and now lives in hiding in the U.K. it is assumed that Michael kept Tribune going as he was paid over £34000 in cash over 20 years and there is no trace of the money. When this information came to light just before an election, the then security services didn’t know what to do as they were so surprised by it and did nothing. MF did not become PM and MI5 breathed a huge sigh of relief, we were told.

trisher Mon 03-Jun-19 11:39:45

Annie Jess Phillips said her parents stopped paying her membership subscription . She became an MP in 2015
I would hope they did, with an MPs salary she should be paying her own!!!!

nightowl Mon 03-Jun-19 12:00:37

Those are not new claims JennyB and Michael Foot sued the Sunday Times for publishing the same thing in 1995. The former editor Andrew Neil is amongst others who have spoken out against the renewed allegations, as has Neil Kinnock who said about Michael Foot:

“He would never have served their purposes. When these allegations were made against him in 1995 he sued and won substantial damages. He has been dead for eight years. Repeating such claims without any substantive additional proof is filthy.”

Anniebach Mon 03-Jun-19 12:13:30

trisher she was not an MP 1997 to 2007 ,

nightowl Mon 03-Jun-19 12:13:40

I think the fact these allegations are being repeated adds weight to Grany’s post above. Spread enough dirt....

Anniebach Mon 03-Jun-19 12:20:22

So were these accusations made against Michael in 1983 or
1995. Michael sued 12 years after the allegations ?

Oh the far left and their ‘it’s the establishment , yawn

GracesGranMK3 Mon 03-Jun-19 12:33:46

Of course, you cannot libel the dead, can you? What a coward.

Anniebach Mon 03-Jun-19 12:38:23

Michael died in 2010 !

GracesGranMK3 Mon 03-Jun-19 12:39:34

It seems very strange Anniebach (Mon 03-Jun-19 12:20: 22), that anyone who believes themselves to be on the left by the tiniest bit does not see the establishment, that "powerful but unaccountable network of people who wield massive power and reap huge profits in the process" for what they are.

Stunning! I cannot believe you still want to be a Labour Party member - or that they want you. You may be the very person who convinces me they are right.

Anniebach Mon 03-Jun-19 12:49:06

They want me to rejoin GracesGran 😀 I gave the same reason for not rejoining as I did when i left the party, ‘not whilst Corbyn is leader, and they stamp out anti semetism,’ which I assume will stop when Corbyn is no longer leader.

GracesGranMK3 Mon 03-Jun-19 13:05:18

I had missed the fact that you have actually left Annie. At least you can now support the Tories honestly. Obviously, you may now have a problem with both antisemitism and Islamaphobia from the hard right of that party, but I doubt it will bother you as long as you can tear away at Corbyn.

Anniebach Mon 03-Jun-19 13:14:47

I abhor racism, I cannot accept as said by one Corbyn supporter who posted , one racism comment can pale into
insignificant compared to another racism comment, all racist comments are vile

If I wished to support the Tory party I would do so, I have no wish to, I may no longer be a party member but still have the values of true socialism , sadly Corbyn and his gang do not.

This sudden collection of Corbynites making personal comments against me have no effect, I remain true to myself

Iam64 Mon 03-Jun-19 13:15:21

Scuse me for butting into a bit of a row here but, I find the use of the phrase "little old lady" to describe another poster just a tad rude.
I think I'm a bit younger, though not much, than Annie and I'm almost certainly taller so 'little' may be very inaccurate so far as I'm concerned but - for one poster who is old enough to be a gransnet person to use that kind of language about another does seem rather unnecessary.

Anniebach Mon 03-Jun-19 13:22:51

And I am 5’ 7” tall, , 😯

not a tade rude sorry, offensive to all
grans who post on this forum. But I have been told this is the way party members are treated by momentum members too

Anniebach Mon 03-Jun-19 13:39:36

A thought, I can call Corbyn ‘a little old man’ , no, so ill mannered and ignorant

Grany Mon 03-Jun-19 14:57:49

Two Peace Awards

For lifelong anti racism

Anniebach Mon 03-Jun-19 15:08:29

So anti semetism isn’t racism.

How can you be proud of that when he supported the IRA, baffling

Grany Mon 03-Jun-19 15:27:38

No anti semitism is against racism

Jeremy Corbyn played a key role in getting the Good Friday Agreement.

Grany Mon 03-Jun-19 15:30:00

Sorry I got that bit wrong Jeremy is not anti Semitic

Anniebach Mon 03-Jun-19 15:33:19

Written by friends of Corbyn. Fact he did not work with Mo

Anniebach Mon 03-Jun-19 15:44:14

Oops, Corbyn’s close friend George Galloway has been sacked from his job ‘Talk Radio’ because of a tweet

Congratulations to the great people of Liverpool to the memory of the socialist miner Bill Shankley to the fallen
96 to those who fought for justice for them and to the Liverpool dockers. no Israel flag on the cup

Tottenham the losing team has many Jewish fans.

Tottenham said ‘ it’s astounding in this day and age to read
such blatant antisemitism published on a social platform ‘

GrannyGravy13 Mon 03-Jun-19 15:49:27

Anniebach I read that earlier absolutely disgusting way to behave!!

Anniebach Mon 03-Jun-19 15:53:22

It is disgusting GranyGravy but will be excused or ignored
by the Corbynites

trisher Mon 03-Jun-19 16:12:08

It is NOT anti-semitic to criticise Israel!

trisher Mon 03-Jun-19 16:14:40

And if they use the Israeli flag is it anti-semitic to comment that it won't be on the cup?

GrannyGravy13 Mon 03-Jun-19 16:18:04

trisher he knew that the a large number of Tottenham Hotspur’s fans are Jewish, he knew exactly what he was saying.

(I do know the difference between anti-semitism and anti-Israeli)

trisher Mon 03-Jun-19 16:18:20

And yet Uefa fines Glasgow fans for Palestinian flags at a match. Double standards or what?

trisher Mon 03-Jun-19 16:19:55

So if Sunderland win a cup and I tweet "No Geordie flag on the cup" am I being racist?

trisher Mon 03-Jun-19 16:21:22

GrannyGravy13 they show the Israeli flag at matches, so it's a statement of fact not something he dreamed up.

GrannyGravy13 Mon 03-Jun-19 16:25:00

trisher not racist but maybe extremely provocative.

GrannyGravy13 Mon 03-Jun-19 16:29:04

trisher as stated earlier he knew what he put on social media was unacceptable, he knew it would cause a “stir”, and as I understand he has previously been anti semetic.

trisher Mon 03-Jun-19 16:32:42

Long live provocation and challenges without which oppressive regimes would flourish and human rights would sink like a stone.

Anniebach Mon 03-Jun-19 17:26:31

Does Sunderland have their own flag?

What has the Israeli flag got to do with a football match between two English teams ?

Not anti semetic to criticise Israel? Unbelievable what pathetic defence a Corbynite can use.

Israel wasn’t playing trisher , get it

Grandad1943 Mon 03-Jun-19 17:32:59

Anniebach Quote [ Oops, Corbyn’s close friend George Galloway has been sacked from his job ‘Talk Radio’ because of a tweet ] End Quote.

Anniebach, George Galloway was expelled from the Labour Party in 2004 for "bringing the party into disrepute." Therefore it would seem you try to create another hypothetical situation in your laughable attempts to discredit Jeremy Corbyn.

Galloway has praised Corbyn for his changing of the structure of the overall Labour movement. However, his request directly to Jeremy Corbyn in recent times for him to assist his readmittance to the Labour Party has been treated with indifference by Corbyn I believe.

So Anniebach once again your ongoing attempts to paint Corbyn into almost any derogatory situation or news item become evermore rediculas.

Grandad1943 Mon 03-Jun-19 17:46:11

The fact that Jeremy Corbyn would not assist Galloway in his attempt to rejoin the Labour Party undoubtedly prompted Galloway to now join the high profile ragtag bag of those actively supporting the Brexit Party in the media.

What a joke that man is.

Anniebach Mon 03-Jun-19 17:56:22

So Galloway is a liar ?

Grandad1943 Mon 03-Jun-19 18:16:43

Anniebach Quote [ So Galloway is a liar?] End Quote

Let us say that Galloway can be "very creative in what he views/imagines as facts."

Also Anniebach, regarding your posts on Tottenham Hotspur Football Club (to give them their full name) the club was brought about out of the large Jewish community that lived in the Tottenham area of London for many generations.

Many of the Clubs fans still try to retain that link even today by singing often derogatory songs about themselves from the terraces on match days. It creates a unique light-hearted atmosphere, especially for visiting fans, and long may that continue.

Galloway in trying to link that to middle east politics was a total disgrace, and he very much deserved to be sacked by the radio station in my view.

Anniebach Mon 03-Jun-19 18:23:50

granddad1943 respect for not defending Galloway and thank you for explaining the birth of Tottenham football club, understandable that Tottenham were angry

trisher Mon 03-Jun-19 18:27:54

If it was the Jewish community he had commented on that would be completely right Grandad1943 but he referred to the Israeli flag which is displayed in the crowd at many matches. So he did not introduce the flag into the debate nor did he refer to the Jewish community. He referred to the Israeli flag. There is a link earlier in this thread showing the flag being displayed.
I notice no one has commented on why the Palestinian flag could not be displayed at a Glasgow match.

Anniebach Mon 03-Jun-19 18:39:22

trisher you certainly help understanding of how so many anti semetic attacks in the Momentum/Corbyn Party are ignored

trisher Mon 03-Jun-19 18:49:31

It's an Israeli flag Annie It's not a Jewish flag. Many Jewish people do not support Israel. Many Jewish people have other nationalities. Why is it anti-semitic to criticise the Israeli flag?
Still no comment on Glasgow and the Palestinin flag!!!

Grandad1943 Mon 03-Jun-19 19:07:22

trisher, many thanks for the clarification of situation at the Champions League Final on Saturday. Due to other commitments, I did not see the match but have attended many Tottenham home matches over the years when I have been in London for work reasons.

In that, I never seen an Israeli flag raised among the Tottenham supporters and would have thought that would be far from their style of support for the club.

As I stated in my earlier post, Tottenham fans always have a very light-hearted approach to support for their club, and many of the self derogatory songs they sing in the build-up to the start of a home match can be absolutely hilarious and well worth going just for that.

Therefore I cannot understand why the Israeli flag was displayed prior to and during the match on Saturday. Perhaps it was because it was a huge final being played in Madrid and the very expensive tickets were gained by some of Tottenham's growing worldwide supporters who perhaps do not fully understand that the traditional Jewish connections of the club have no reference to Israel in the reality of these times.

However, again Trisher many thanks for posting clarification.

trisher Mon 03-Jun-19 19:21:27

Thanks Grandad1943 I had to research it to find out what was really going on myself. So many places reporting the Tweet without explaining the circumstances. It really bothers me. I think there are so many accusations flying about now that there is a real danger that accusing someone of anti-semitism will become so common the very real anti-semitism which still exists will be overlooked and people will just shrug their shoulders when it is mentioned. It would be helpful if the circumstances were explained properly.

Iam64 Mon 03-Jun-19 20:46:30

Displaying the Israeli flag doesn't equate to supporting the actions of the current Israeli government. Any visit to Auschwitz will mean meeting groups of young Jewish people wearing or carrying the Israeli flag. It doesn't mean (automatically) that they support the current Israeli government but it does mean they support the right of Jewish people to have a flag an a homeland.
Galloway is anti semitic. As has often been acknowledged in these discussions, there can be a fine line between anti semitism and disapproval of the current Israeli government. Galloway crossed that line, again and quite deliberately, with his recent tweet.
Grandad - I have Jewish friends who support WestHam so thanks for reminding us of the history.

GracesGranMK3 Mon 03-Jun-19 21:32:14

You still seem to be conflating all Jews with Israel and only Jews with Israel Iam neither are true and we must be allowed to criticise any state whoever sees it as a 'homeland'.

Iam64 Mon 03-Jun-19 22:04:23

What do you mean, conflating all Jews with Isreal? Where has anyone suggested it’s unacceptable to criticise the actions of the current Isreali government?

trisher Mon 03-Jun-19 22:51:10

If someone displays a flag with the cross of St George it is reasonable to assume that they are English and supporters of the country of England. If someone displays the Israeli flag it is reasonable to suppose they are supporters of the country of Israel. They may or may not support the policies of that country's government. If someone says that fllag is not going to be on a football cup it is not dengrating that country nor is it anti-semitic it is simply teling the people who displayed the flag that they have lost.

trueblue22 Tue 04-Jun-19 05:36:13

trisher you don't understand the emotional and historical tie that Jews have to Israel.

Israel is the only country in the world that would accept the wandering Jews. They have been persecuted through the centuries and they feel safer knowing there is one country they can flee to. My parents were Holocaust survivors, so I feel deeply on their insecurity.

Anti semitism is rife- I live, and am a local authority councillor, in London. There are too many incidences in my ward alone: excrement left on synagogue steps, anti Semitic trope graffiti on public buildings and attacks on Jewish schoolchildren.

Btw, Israel is the only democratic country in the ME. As for the anti Semitic trope of 'Zionist expansionism', Israel returned Gaza to the Palestinians and they are still under attack.

Criticism of a country that one hasn't visited, but whose views come from the media that suits their point of view, has to be questioned.

trueblue22 Tue 04-Jun-19 05:44:51

He finds it pretty difficult to say the word Israel and he goes to a Passover dinner held by a group that the Jewish establishment find abhorent.

Many of the Jewish Labour voting residents in my ward, when canvassed before last year's local elections, said they would refuse to vote Labour because he was leader. They didn't want to 'enable' the party.

GracesGranMK3 Tue 04-Jun-19 06:41:10

I find your posts trueblue as ignorant as those who muddle the Israeli state with Jews in general and then, often in ignorance, make antisemitic comments because they disagree with Israeli policy. It's almost as if you are blaming the likes of Corbyn for not sharing your misguided view.

trueblue22 Tue 04-Jun-19 07:20:29

In what way gracesgranmk3 ? You've made a statement without qualifying it.

trueblue22 Tue 04-Jun-19 07:25:55

trisher Israel is the only Jewish state in the world, so a huge connection between the People and the State.

GracesGranMK3 Tue 04-Jun-19 07:31:43

I don't understand just what you are referring to as an "unqualified" statement trueblue. If you could explain just what you want qualifying I am happy to help.