Labour anti-semitism

I don't think they are 'unable' to debate Iam. I think they are so sure they are right they have ceased to question their own views. I don't really care that much about what they say to me, I am more bothered that it is a malaise that covers the country on all subjects.

If we look at present day, I think the main criticism is the way the state of Israel has adopted an expansionist policy. This is of course related to Zionism in many critics view.

That’s correct whitewave.
The so called ‘right’ arent the only people who are so sure they’re right they’ve ceased to question their own views. I share the general negative feelings on the political threads but I don’t feel it’s all hopeless. Good people still vastly outnumber bad

So GracesgranMK3 you have just stated you're a Zionist. Are you offended that JC said you don't understand English irony?

Did I, trueue where did I say that?

No, she didn't state she was a Zionist, trueblue; she just failed to differentiate between her words and the words she has pasted from the article by Ilana Newman. Which starts at the 2nd paragraph of her post.

The beliefs and religious practices of the Naturei Karta are as unpalatable to me as those of most other religions (bar the Quakers). Perhaps more unpalatable to me because their practices appear to be especially restrictive of women and intolerant of other groups of Jewish people who do not adhere to their strict way of life ("if they don't like it, they can go somewhere else"). However, in the video link provided, they do say they are a non-violent organisation (though I tend to feel that burning a flag could be perceived as an act of violence). Whatever their beliefs and other people's views of those beliefs, I don't think they deserve to be screamed at, told to "fuck off" and called "scum" by other Jewish, or non-Jewish, people.

The video did demonstrate that, as with other religions, all Jewish people do not uniformly see themselves as Zionists or align themselves with Israel - although probably many do. But majorities are not always right, as history has shown us.

I do think that it was wrong for Palestinians to be removed from their land and homes and for Israel to continue this seizure of land and property. The Palestinians were not responsible for the Holocaust - Europeans were, but it was the Palestinians who were forced to make reparation.

There is such ill feeling now on both sides that it is difficult to see how this awful situation can be resolved. A start might be for Israel to withdraw from illegally seized land. Sadly, not very likely with Netanyahu. Some prominent Israelis have been appalled by Netanyahu's coalition with right wing parties advocating Jewish supremacy and the expulsion of Arabs from Israel:

(from the Los Angeles Times Feb 2019)
"In a Facebook post, prominent Jerusalem-based Rabbi Benny Lau denounced Netanyahu in terms rarely heard in Israel.

"If people whose beliefs stem from the Bible introduce racial policy into parliament, Lau asked, “what will we have become?”

"During his Saturday sermon, Lau preached that a vote for the United Right-wing Parties was equal to a vote for Nazism.

"A group of nearly 90 orthodox rabbis followed suit, publishing an open letter warning followers who back the newly formed group that “the stain of your association with evil will be permanent.”

.

eloethan. Indeed.

eloethan, another occasion when I say thanks for your post. Well informed, balanced and spot on.

Eleothan I think the group are interesting, and Orthodox Jews' views on women are similar to many of those of the Muslim faith.(which is odd) Their attitude to others is particularly strange, they do not seek to change people or to convert anyone.They do not condemn or seek to destroy others. They simply say they are right and everyone else is wrong then leave things as they are.
I think what the video showed as well is that there are supporters of Israel who are prepared to go to any lengths to acheive their goals. Their shouting outside the embassy is as unacceptable as the abusive messages sent to Ruth Smeeth and whatever political party people support this sort of abuse has to be condemned.
I live quite close to an Orthodox Jewish community and really they are model citizens, but I must confess I find some of the things difficult to accept, like different schools for boys and girls even at nursery age

Whilst we still have faith schools which segregate our young people, and they have strict parents which forbid them mixing with people of other "faiths", suspicion and hatred has a breeding ground.

I have no solution and listening to MPs of both sides who continue to deny their parties have racism and sexism in their midst, cannot see an end to it.

It's the fault of our own that we have these divisions in schools/teaching.
I watched a programme earlier with Nazir Afzal and I so agree with him about not bringing gender into a classroom of infant/primary school.
Muslim schools teach values and morality and that's how it should be.
I was disgusted that a shower of LBGT protesters were outside such a school and if that isn't fuelling hatred I don't know what is. Shameful.
We have no right whatsoever to interfere in the way Muslims bring up their children, they're a jolly sight more respectable than some of ours.
It's this country to blame for the divisions in communities.

EllanVannin if we are not bringing gender into primary schools how should we respond when a Muslim girl is wearing a hijab?

School is a place to learn, age appropriate understanding of friendships / relationships is essential in this day.

I would far rather my GC learn about LGBGT issues in the classroom along side what they learn from family than from the Internet.

Tolerance is part of school PSD lessons. I am uneasy with pre-pubescent girls wearing the hijab.

EllanVannin The current school
Protesters are Muslim, they are protesting against “age appropriate teaching” i.e. some children have 2 Mummies, some have 2 Daddies, some have Mummy and Daddy and sone only have a Mummy or Daddy.

If that's the case then I don't blame them. Kids are confused enough.

In that respect, we should respect the wishes of those who want to be educated in subjects other than same sex parents.

If those subjects involve hatred and condemnation that's OK? It's amazing that someone should think this way and post on a thread about human rights and abuse. If parents teach their children abuse is OK we should just sit back and allow it?

trisher I agree with you, some children hear nothing but prejudice, intolerance, racism and hatred of others in their homes in the name of religion.

Schools should be a place of enlightenment, free from all of the above.

EllanVannin I can only think you haven't given any though before you made your comments. Do you have young children in the family? How would you answer them if they said their little friend only had a mummy, or only a daddy, or two daddies, or two mummies, or that their mummy and daddy don't live together so they have two homes?

They are likely to come across this at some point. How would you deal with it?

And some children learn in their homes that homosexuals are perverts, and not in the name of religion but homophobic parents.

Anniebach Thank you I should have posted sometimes in the name of religion.

People sometimes quote religious texts as an excuse for their homophobia.

Blimey, even the Pope calls it an annihilation of nature.

Shouldn't children be learning proper lessons anyway instead of being brought into political arguments ?

When children are running wild in the streets, annoying neighbours etc, we hear ‘where are the parents’

Yet parents with a religious faith are condemned for sharing their beliefs with their children

I doubt children are puzzled if a friend has only one parent,
children accept things with no need to question. My younger daughter never questioned why the mother of one of her friends lived and shared a bedroom with another woman.

I think 5 year olds are too young for these lessons, if they are puzzled they will ask their parents