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Labour anti-semitism

(929 Posts)
Anniebach Tue 28-May-19 12:04:55

The equality and human rights commission have launched
an investigation

Whitewavemark2 Fri 05-Jul-19 19:39:08

lemon have you read anything about the artist? Your remarks can hardly be described as measured and thoughtful, rather confrontational and thoughtless.

trisher Fri 05-Jul-19 19:41:17

lemon it's not my theory one of the criticisms was that this was a depiction of Jews as having big noses that has been used in anti-semitic propaganda, but in fact only 2 of the figures are Jews, so why do the others have big noses? And if people who are not Jewish are painted with big noses how is that anti-semitic?

lemongrove Fri 05-Jul-19 19:47:35

Oh for heavens sake trisher stop digging!

Fennel Fri 05-Jul-19 19:53:06

Shabat shalom a tous et touts [grin}

Whitewavemark2 Fri 05-Jul-19 19:58:30

? peace to you fennel

Smileless2012 Fri 05-Jul-19 20:11:45

So why did the other figures also have big nose trisher? Why were they not represented differently if it was the artists' intention to only have 2 Jewish figures depicted in his piece?

Why do none of the figures being weighed down by the monopoly board have large noses? Why is it only those 'on top' who've been represented in this grotesque and stereotypical format, long associated with antisemitism?

POGS Fri 05-Jul-19 20:25:54

Grany and those who appreciate the words of Finkelstein.

Re the words and conspiracy theory of Professor Norman Finkelstein.

In the last few minutes I was intrigued by an interview on SKY with Labour Shadow Cabinet Minister Louise Haigh.

She was asked a question at the end of the interview re another ' rumpus ' which looks set to run re the appointment of Jules Rutherford as Head of of the Labour Party Membership starting on Monday.

The ' rumpus ' is over Rutherfords use of social media to US academic Professor Norman Finkelstein and his conspiracy theory., as with Grany's post :-

Grany Fri 05-Jul-19 08:42:37
Finkelstein - 'I Don't Believe In Conspiracy Theories... But This Is A Conspiracy'

It will be interesting to see if this story ' has legs ' but Labour MP Louise Hague does not appear to be enamoured shall I say.

It will be interesting to see the opinions beyond Gransnet posters re Finkelstein's conspiracy theory .

trisher Sat 06-Jul-19 10:09:52

Smileless2012 This has already been discussed But if you really don't want to read the thread. Old people tend to have big noses. The men are named and they have big noses. The artist has painted them as they are, should he have changed them to make sure no one was offended? Art has consistently historically offended many people, particularlly religious bodies. Many works of art were defaced by the Victorians who painted veils and other concealing items over bits they thought shouldn't be seen.
The figures below are general depictions of the younger population who are oppressed by the rich. Many of them appear to be black- should black people be offended because they are portrayed as being oppressed?
Fennel Shalom chaverin.

lemongrove Sat 06-Jul-19 10:26:27

Smileless .... it has been discussed by trisher ( ad nauseam) that in her view the street mural only portrays rich old men because
A) they are rich
B) old men all have big noses ( even though they don’t.)

It’s her opinion only.

Anniebach Sat 06-Jul-19 10:31:43

And big ears !

trisher Sat 06-Jul-19 10:47:38

Once again those on GN who refuse to discuss anything using logic and evidence attempt to make what is actually fact into something else So on ears and noses
www.verywellhealth.com/how-your-nose-grows-with-age-2223746
On some of the people represented
JP Morgan and Alisteir Crowley
Are their noses big?

lemongrove Sat 06-Jul-19 10:52:38

Annie grin

trisher.......time to move on!

Anniebach Sat 06-Jul-19 10:54:17

Corbyn said the wall mural was anti semetic, that’s it.

Anniebach Sat 06-Jul-19 10:55:05

Seems Corbyn doesn’t use logic

trisher Sat 06-Jul-19 11:16:04

No idea what Corbyn uses Annie but as you disagree with him on so many things it is good to see you reaching agreement.
lemon
I answered Smiless2012's question if you are tired of the discussion perhaps you should drop it

POGS Sat 06-Jul-19 11:20:44

I'm more interested in how Labour will handle the Jules Rutherford case to be honest.

I think Gordon Brown makes a good point :-

In a speech in London, Labour's former prime minister will also call for an independent appeals process to keep it separate from "Labour's hierarchy".

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48887671

It appears from the top of the table / ' Labour's hierarchy ' under Corbyn's leadership and the fact Labour is now run by Corbyn parties within a party set up, the appointment to the position of Head of Membership must have been sanctioned by someone / some group .

The Parliamentary MP's should be asking questions about this appointment.

Johno Sat 06-Jul-19 11:26:13

I have never seen any evidence linked directly to the MSM accusations and that shite Tom Watson, who wants to bring down Corbyn and has always worked against Corbyn. Antisemitism claims is a way of shutting people down, just as with Novachok (the specially made dangerous chemical stuff, made at Portland Down) people moan at Russia and Putin but you ask them what Npvachock is and they do not know. It is laughable the sheeplike way people obey the MSM mantra.

Johno Sat 06-Jul-19 11:28:05

Who cares. Its all a load of crap. What about the WASPIES ??? That is far more relevant and important.

Anniebach Sat 06-Jul-19 11:28:45

Finklestein claims - Jews were the spearhead of the campaign to stop Corbyn and anti semetism allegations are
a witch hunt hysteria

Grany Sat 06-Jul-19 11:54:09

Just repeating some of article.

I don't see what was not obvious in the truth written by Proffessor NF that all the newspapers in a concerted effort lied smeared Jeremy Corbyn and Labour. Do you dispute this? What is it if not a conspiracy?

And this? This is fact too.

The British elites could not have gotten away with calling Corbyn an anti-semite unless they had the support, the visible support, of all the leading Jewish organisations.

You have to remember that during the summer 2018 all three major British publications, for the first time in British Jewish history, they all took out a common editorial denouncing Corbyn as an anti-semite and saying that we're now standing on the verge of another Holocaust.

They are the enablers of this concerted conspiracy by the whole of British elite society to destroy Jeremy Corbyn

So why can't this be called what it is a conspiracy? It is.

Indeed, an October 2016 report by the Commons home affairs committee found:

'Despite significant press and public attention on the Labour Party, and a number of revelations regarding inappropriate social media content, there exists no reliable, empirical evidence to support the notion that there is a higher prevalence of antisemitic attitudes within the Labour Party than any other political party.'

A September 2017 report by the Institute for Jewish Policy Research found:

'Levels of antisemitism among those on the left-wing of the political spectrum, including the far-left, are indistinguishable from those found in the general population... The most antisemitic group on the political spectrum consists of those who identify as very right-wing: the presence of antisemitic attitudes in this group is 2 to 4 times higher compared to the general population.'

The report noted that 'the prevalence of antisemitism on the far right is considerably higher than on the left and in the political centre'.

Jonathan Cook described in February how a new Labour Party report had 'decisively undercut' the claims of Corbyn's critics: allegations of anti-semitism had been made 'against 0.08 percent of the 540,000-strong Labour membership. Hardly "endemic" or "institutional", is it?
No it isn't.

The point was made on July 2 when a small UK newspaper, Jewish News, chose to highlight a comment made in an interview with Foreign Secretary Jeremy Hunt published the previous day:

'When I went to Auschwitz I rather complacently said to myself, "thank goodness we don't have to worry about that kind of thing happening in the UK" and now I find myself faced with the leader of the Labour Party who has opened the door to antisemitism in a way that is truly frightening.'

Hunt's words represent a level of moral depravity that almost defies belief. To use the Holocaust for political gain in faking the claim that Corbyn could open the door to a second Holocaust, is to do nothing less than exploit the deaths of the 6 million Jews who died under Nazi tyranny. It is truly astonishing that a Jewish newspaper would be willing to publish such a comment. Writer Michael Rosen, a Professor at Goldsmiths, University of London, commented:

'A possible future prime minister has said something about Auschwitz which the political editor of the Jewish Chronicle has said on twitter is "offensive". None of this is - apparently - news. What is it then?'

Why was this not news? Answers on a postcard.

Hunt's comment generated massive, widespread outrage on social media. And yet, our July 4 ProQuest newspaper database search found a single mention in the entire UK press (in the Daily Mail) – the comment has simply been buried, presumably to avoid damaging the anti-semitism smear campaign targeting Corbyn.

Yes The Daily Fail don't want to damage their smear campaign.

The reference to this by Jules Rutherford was well intentioned by her and will be dealt with within Labour Though from what I can see she was only repeating common sense truth that should be read by everyone. Though you have to be so careful what you say on social media now.

POGS Sat 06-Jul-19 14:26:03

Grany

" They are the enablers of this concerted conspiracy by the whole of British elite society to destroy Jeremy Corbyn"
----

There is an alternative view as to who can be called ''enablers'.

People who believe in the conspiracy theories such as yourself, those who agree with the likes of Finkelstein, are also ' the enablers' for antisemitism /anti-semetic remarks and tropes that have brought the Labour Party to a point where they have to say you do so ' not in our name'.

I rarely quote Momentum in a favourable way I admit but Jon Lansman once said this of the deniers and conspiracy theorists :-

' Labour has “a much larger” group of antisemitic members than it recognises which Jeremy Corbyn has failed to “deal with”, Momentum founder Jon Lansman has warned.

The Labour leader’s long-standing ally said “conspiracy theorists ” had infiltrated the party – a consequence of its huge surge in membership in recent years.

“I do think we have a major problem and it always seems to me that we underestimate the scale of it. I think it is a widespread problem.

“I think it is now obvious that we have a much larger number of people with hardcore antisemitic opinions which, unfortunately, is polluting the atmosphere in a lot of constituency parties and in particular online. We have to deal with these people."

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-antisemitism-momentum-corbyn-jon-lansman-interview-tom-watson-a8796136.html

Jeremy Corbyn once said this of the deniers and conspiracy theorists in the Labour Party :-

" Denying the continuing problem doesn’t help. Labour staff have seen examples of Holocaust denial, crude stereotypes of Jewish bankers, conspiracy theories blaming 9/11 on Israel, and even one individual who appeared to believe that Hitler had been misunderstood.

People holding those views have no place in the Labour party. They may be few: the number of cases over the past three years represents less than 0.1 per cent of Labour’s membership of more than half a million. But one is too many.

Our party must never be a home for such people, and never will be. People who dish out antisemitic poison need to understand: you do not do it in my name. You are not my supporters and have no place in our movement."

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/aug/03/jeremy-corbyn-antisemitism-labour-party

trisher Sat 06-Jul-19 15:37:58

POGS what you have posted just shows that the Labour party has taken steps to ensure that anti-semitism is not accepted in the party. In fact it therefore enforces what Grany previously posted that there has been a concerted effort to discredit Jeremy Corbyn. There can also be little doubt this is linked to his support for Palestine.
As for those who agree with the likes of Finkelstein, are also ' the enablers' for antisemitism /anti-semetic remarks
Finkelstein is Jewish and as such is more qualified to recognise anti-semitism than most people and accusing him of being an "anti-semitic enabler" is in fact anti-semitic.
Some comment on Jeremy Hunt's disgusting remarks might be interesting

CariGransnet (GNHQ) Sat 06-Jul-19 15:52:05

Just to say, we realise that this is a difficult topic and people have very strong views, but just a reminder that anything defamatory or that is a personal attack will be deleted. Many thanks

Grany Sat 06-Jul-19 16:13:43

Well put trisher

lemongrove Sat 06-Jul-19 17:30:01

Well....Johno agrees with you about the complete lack of antisemitism within the LP trisher and grany ( and anyone else with the same views) but that is rather let down by his/her views on where the fatal doses of Novichok came from ( Porton Down acccording to Johno).
hmm