Meanwhile in Scotland.....

SG

I’m not sure that’s all quite true. Under the 2016 changes the Barnett formula was guaranteed till 2022 so no reduction in funding. Furthermore of course, the SG has tax raising powers which it can use to raise funds as it sees fit - and they keep every penny of that (on top of the BF).

The SG does have the ability to borrow money under the terms of the settlement and any underspend does not have to be sent back (the significant amount of underspend is v clear).

According to the SH White Paper we should have - in an Indy Scotland - we should have had a ten billion tax take from oil revenues. If I’m not mistaken that figure is nearer 700 million.

It is important to understand that the current state of Scotland's finances, when almost all revenue and taxes raised go to Westminster,y decide how much we are going to get back, bears little or no relation to how the economy would fair under Independence. Under the Barnett Formula if there are cuts to the Education, Welfare or Health Budgets for England and Wales (because of the Tories' austerity policies) then the Scottish Budget is cut too, The Scottish Government has no control or influence over how much their block grant will be from year to year. They are at liberty to increase, say, spending on Education, but in order to do so they must make savings or cuts elsewhere. If Scotland were Independent then all taxes, revenues, duties and such things as Oil Licences would go direct to the treasury in Edinburgh and could be spent, saved or invested as the SG saw fit. Currently Scotland is bound to spend within the limits of the block grant - any surplus left over at year end must be returned to the UK treasury and they are not allowed to borrow money, issue bonds, etc. This makes it extremely difficult to plan ahead or invest in infrastructure which will eventually help the economy.

Legislation has been passed by the SG this week, which sets out the path towards a future referendum. NS is aiming for a late 2020 date, when (surely) we will know if the UK is In or Out of Europe.

NS really needs to be a bit clearer than that if she hopes to grow the nationalist vote. She needs to be more proactive and table her intentions (or even a wish list) - that doesn’t require her to wait and see what the rUK is doing.

Fortunately Scotland still remains in the UK and the UK still remains in the EU. Long may that continue. We truly are better together.

I think she needs to wait until we find out whether the UK is out, when it will be out and on what terms.

Almost everyone, in any Country contributes to the economy

That's not the same as being a net contributor though.

I don't think anyone is saying that Scotland can't be a member - but at the moment, with our deficit as it is at the moment, my understanding is that we would have to address that before we could get back in.

Has NS set out the terms of our planned membership to the EU yet?

EU countries with a similar population to Scotland's 5.4 m -
Denmark 5.7 m
Finland. 5.5 m
Slovakia. 5.4 m
Also, Croatia, Ireland, Slovenia, Lithuania, Latvia, Cyprus and Luxembourg are all EU members and considerably smaller. No one is telling them they can't be independent countries or EU member states.

Almost everyone, in any Country contributes to the economy. Even children paying for sweets with their pocket money are paying VAT. There is VAT to be paid on all 3 of my Grandchildren' school shoes. They are 10, 11 & 12 but all have big feet. People on low wages or benefits spend their money locally on food and services which all contributes to the economy, whereas the wealthy spend or save money abroad which does not. Even the mythical 'benefit scroungers' alleged to spend all their money on Fags and booze are paying vasts sums to the treasury.

Donald Trump is not banned from Scotland and never would be as far as I am aware unless he commits criminal offences.

As US president, he is entitled to all the protection the state can give him when invited to the UK. Ditto his children, but I really wish he would leave them at home.

Last time he was persuaded by leading Tories that the Scottish people loved him so much he should come here, rather than stay in London where he might face demonstrations.

The Westminster Government forked out £5 million to keep him secure while in Scotland. They might not be so willing to do this for ever more.

Meanwhile. the total cost to the Americans of his security for the State visit is £18 million so far, and I was making a comment about this and future visits which might cost us very dear, but seem to be aimed at getting trade deals to flaunt at the EU, rather than any common sense about cost, particularly in Scotland where he is disliked because of his early promises over the Menie estate and his attitude to climate change/renewables...an issue on which we Scots are trying to stay ahead of the game.

And how many of them are net contributors to the economy? Have you seen today's figures? Not a great prospect.

Fair enough, but 5 million isn't exactly a large country !!

More Misinformation!!!

FYI Jabberwok

2014 – 5.35 Million
2015 – 5.4 Million
2016 – 5.422 Million
2017 – 5.43 Million
2018 – 5.452 Million

Scotland Population 2019 – 5.4724 Million (estimated)

Ireland, far from being in a pickle, is doing very nicely as an Independent EU Country. note the much higher state pensions and average earnings than the UK.

The EU were welcoming and respectful to Greece and look what happened to them?!!! Italy too now being threatened! Careful what you wish for Scotland once you're on your own with only 2 million people! You could well " ring the bells today, and wring your hands tomorrow "!! Up to you of course, but once you've gone I guess that will be it! Mind you, like Ireland, we're daft enough to bail you out at some future date if you get into a real pickle!

So President Trump won't visit Scotland if independence ever happens? Last time I looked he still had property here.

Granny23 makes the point that we are already European citizens. It's one of the best arguments we have for staying in or re-entering.

There are positive signals from the EU regarding Scotland, but nobody wants to go there publically at present because it would add to the UK megagripes about Brussels.

I'm amazed that people keep ignoring the facts about funding as properly outlined by Granny23 and others.

I'm also stunned that some people still can't see why Scots might want to be an independent nation within a stable, friendly, welcoming, respectful international alliance, rather than be ignored/ruled by the headless chickens, buffoons and infighters of the two main UK parties (about to swan off on another holiday with Halloween Horrors on the near horizon).

And I, for one, don't want another £5 million spent on Scottish police time if Donald Trump decides to add in a golf trip to his brood's State visit which is only happening because the UK is increasingly desperate for a dodgy deal. Caveat emptor - let the buyer beware indeed.

Paddyann Were any of your friends among those who were denied a vote in the Euro Election because their papers were not sent out in time?

I can't imagine that the EU wouldn't look favourably on an independent Scotland joining them if Brexit happens, regardless of what was said prior to the independence vote.

The combined population of the three Baltic States is about the same as Scotland's and their GDP, depending on where you get the figures, is about the same.

Politically I think the EU would relish the idea!

No it was nothing to do with the EU. That wasn't even on the horizon as a risk. They came to the UK not just Scotland. They want to stay. They are allowed to stay and are not being scaremongered by SNP. They were among the 84% who didn't bother to vote SNP.

just for the record ,my friends and neighbours include Italians ,Greek, Dutch ,German ,Slovenian ,Romanian and French ,many work as doctors in the NHS and almost all the rest run businesses .They ALL work and contribute to Scotland .Two of the Doctors have already been threatened with being deported,even though they both cover our local out of hours service at the hospital .We currently have on line petitions to save their lives being ripped apart . Both have lived here for over 20 years .Both are distraught at how they have been treated and can't leave husbands and children behind ...so what do they do?

Jane 10 wasn't that because they believed we'd be out of the EU if we gained Independence .Its the reason many of my EU neighbours voted NO in 2014 .Now they all say they'll vote YES next time .

Oh Granny23 I'm sure you wish all that you state above would/could happen. The EU admittance rules are clear. An independent Scotland would certainly not meet the criteria for membership. We're only in it now as part of UK.
We do benefit from the many Polish and other Eastern European people working here. Scotland has had links with Poland for centuries and Polish people are welcome here. We also have a great number of people from outside the EU who we like and need to work here. They won't all vanish if we leave EU but certainly would if we foolishly left UK. Try asking them? Our Polish family and friends freaked at the prospect of independence from UK and all voted against it.

I don't know much about Nursing Homes but I do, unfortunately, know a lot about the funding for Care Homes. The SG's policy of Free Personal Care, reduces the charge for a care home by 20% e.g. A £1,000 per week charge is reduced to £800 for those who are self funding or the LA.

pce612 I have seldom seen so much misinformation in one post!

The 'Government' does not 'pump money into Scotland. All taxes and revenues raised in Scotland go to the UK Treasury and an amount, calculated using the Barnett formula is returned to Scotland to fund devolved areas e.g. education, health services

Oil and Gas are not running out and new fields are being discovered. Scottish waters hold more stocks than any other Country in Europe.

It matters not that oil companies are foreign owned, they still pay tax in the UK, Customs and excise duties are paid to the UK treasury who also gain a small fortune from the sale of licences to drill. In the event of Independence these taxes and revenues from Scottish waters, would be paid to the Scottish Treasury. Read the McCrone Report for further info.

Similarly. All revenues and duties on Whisky and other spirits produced in Scotland (the biggest foreign export earner) go to the UK treasury but would revert to the SG on Independence.

Scotland already meets the requirements for membership of the EU because WE ARE CURRENTLY IN IT. Everyone resident in Scotland is an EU citizen. The top Brass of the EU are desperate to have Scotland remain in the EU because 1) Financial Institutions could easily re-locate from London to Edinburgh 2) Scotland has the largest oil reserves and the best location for wind and wave power in the EU and 3) I suspect it would give them great satisfaction to give RUK a poke in the eye after all the trouble they have caused.

Nursing homes, like the growing of Scottish soft fruit, have been among the first casualties of the drop-off in the number of EU workers in the past couple of years.

You are quite right, they are not free, but Scotland has a requirement for young, taxpaying, hard-working, incoming labour which falls well below the proposed £30,000pa qualifying salary proposed post-Brexit.

In a few years, the Westminster government's speeded-up Waspi savings bonus will no longer accrue (and we still don't know if they are using that wisely) and our aging, austerity-impoverished population may have to stop receiving some of the distinct benefits put into place by the Scottish Government to ease our lives.

Mainly, they make the right choices, but there will be a limit unless we can attract the labour we need for our specific needs and that is one of the things people outwith Scotland don't understand about why so many of us wish to stay within the EU.

Apologies to all for the duplicated post, computer problems.....