Project Fear- they said ...

Laibak

"hang on; are you arguing that we should leave the EU because at some point, in the future, they might do a deal with the USA?"
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I presume that question was directed to me.

Answer.

Nope, it was a very simple statement re the EU at one time was the devil's spawn on Gransnet because of TTIP negotiations and what if we REMAINED and the EU TTIP negotiations started again.

A sensible response has been we could use our ' veto' and the Walloons being mentioned was another good point to make.

Don't twist.my post into thinking it came down on the side of either Remain or Leave as I think there are points for both sides of the argument.

If your roof is leaking you do not keep spending money on buying bigger buckets........you get the roof fixed.

Simple analogy, but very true of the NHS.

No to reorganisation of the NHS The NHS is unique unrivalled the envy of the world. But it is being taken apart bit by bit privatised by stealth deceit. The NHS needs to be renationalised for the people by the people as it was intended. It worked it was cost effective before Thatcher started privatisation and Blair with PFIs causing the NHS massive debts to pay back. See the videos by Dr Bob Gill or Dr Paul Hobday Fight to save our NHS

I think all this scaremongering (and of course that is exactly what it is) is completely idiotic.

We know NOTHING about Trump's plans, and in fact he has now backtracked regarding the NHS.

Has it occurred to anyone that maybe, just maybe a complete reorganisation, whatever form that may take, might be good for the NHS and us?

Why does it always have to be seen as something completely undesirable? Could it be because we are talking about Donald Trump, so therefore it has to be dismissed automatically?

I don't think it is so much he changed his mind as that somebody briefed him strongly before he did the interview with Piers.

Earlier, nobody called him out about the "thousands of cheering supporters" or the "smallness" of the protests which he'd been carefully shielded from. Nobody corrected him when he said he'd never met Michael Gove (the first British journalist to be granted a one-to-one interview with lots of cringe-making pictures of them in 2017).

He certainly stayed safe with his scripted message, even though some of the words looked to be new to him and there were long pauses mid sentence, but he does not take kindly to being briefed for the live stuff and that's what you get.

Remember when he insisted he'd said "wouldn't" when he'd quite clearly said "would" in a live answer on Russia?

It's not so much that he can't be trusted. It's more than he can't seem to see that people are not so overawed by his wealth and power that he can say anything he likes on tape and on camera and we will all have sudden attacks of obsequious memory loss.

The only "fake" news comes from his own lips.

And sadly, he shows his true colours because he thinks the UK is desperate, which just over 50% of us clearly are at the moment.

'What if we REMAIN in the EU and the EU eventually does a Trade Deal with the US??'

Do folk think there will never be a Trade Deal between the EU and the US??'....hang on; are you arguing that we should leave the EU because at some point, in the future, they might do a deal with the USA? Or am I missing the point here? Surely, if that happened we would have a power of veto over it [or, at least have our MEP's speaking out against chlorinated chicken; well, the non Brexit party MEP's that is [on the assumption that some of them, unlike Farage do actually turn up to represent us, that is....]

Video evidence has emerged of Nigel Farage saying EU cash should be spent on the National Health Service after Brexit.
The Ukip leader on Friday morning denied having endorsed a pledge to spend Britain’s EU contribution on the NHS just hours after the referendum results came in.

He told ITV’s Good Morning Britain that the pledge came from others in the Leave campaign and that it was their “mistake” to loudly earmark £350 million for the health service during the campaign.

Watch more

Read more Nigel Farage disowns Vote Leave '£350m for the NHS' Brexit pledge
However footage from BBC Question Time on 9 June – just weeks before the referendum – shows the Ukip leader claiming the available cash was higher than £350 million and saying money should be spent on hospitals and GPs.

“Can we just get to the truth of this - £350 million a week is wrong, it’s higher than that,” he told the programme’s audience.
“FACT – absolute fact – from the official statistics cross-checked from the EU: we pay £55 million a day as a contribution. Some of that is the rebate which doesn’t go but our gross contribution is £55 million a day.”

“We should spend that money here, in our own country, on our own people,” he added.
When subsequently challenged by an audience member who said he advocated an insurance systemVideo evidence has emerged of Nigel Farage saying EU cash should be spent on the National Health Service after Brexit.
The Ukip leader on Friday morning denied having endorsed a pledge to spend Britain’s EU contribution on the NHS just hours after the referendum results came in.

He told ITV’s Good Morning Britain that the pledge came from others in the Leave campaign and that it was their “mistake” to loudly earmark £350 million for the health service during the campaign.

Watch more

Read more Nigel Farage disowns Vote Leave '£350m for the NHS' Brexit pledge
However footage from BBC Question Time on 9 June – just weeks before the referendum – shows the Ukip leader claiming the available cash was higher than £350 million and saying money should be spent on hospitals and GPs.

“Can we just get to the truth of this - £350 million a week is wrong, it’s higher than that,” he told the programme’s audience.
“FACT – absolute fact – from the official statistics cross-checked from the EU: we pay £55 million a day as a contribution. Some of that is the rebate which doesn’t go but our gross contribution is £55 million a day.”

“We should spend that money here, in our own country, on our own people,” he added.
When subsequently challenged by an audience member who said he advocated an insurance system and did not “believe in the NHS”, he said:

6 ways Britain leaving the EU will affect you and did not “believe in the NHS”, he said:

..I don't think I can post the actual video but will try....

I have read all the posts and gather that DT has said he is not after the NHS. So he changes his mind in one day? Surely that is the point, he can't be trusted?

One point I haven't seen made is that DT imposes restrictions on who his suppliers are allowed to trade with. This means that he can wake up one day and decide he doesn't like a country, say Portugal, and therefore won't trade with any country that works with Portugal. It would by much harder for him to do that with the 27 EU countries and the 70+ countries they have agreement with than to our little country.

I suppose we’d use our veto POGS
Don’t all 28 (soon to be 27) have to agree?
Look at the Canada deal that took 8years because Wallonia didn’t agree.

I remember when it was the EU that was the devil's spawn on Gransnet.

When the EU was looking to do a Trade Deal with the US chlorinated chickens and the NHS were the reasons given years ago why it shouldn't happen.

What if we REMAIN in the EU and the EU eventually does a Trade Deal with the US??

Do folk think there will never be a Trade Deal between the EU and the US??

Yes, Stephen Hawking was a very strong advocate of the NHS, thanks for reminding me.

I seem to remember Trump saying at some point that "The NHS has been cheating the US for years," and vowing to stop that "cheating". By using such emotive language he sways US opinion against both the UK and the NHS - the language of commercial battles, not international diplomacy.

There is already too much ignorance and misinformation in the US against "socialised medicine". Remember Sarah Palin declaring that her disabled daughter would not have been allowed to live under the NHS? Round about the same time, someone said that Stephen Hawking would not have survived in the UK - they can't have noticed that he was in fact British, not American, or that he told told everyone that the he owed his life to the NHS.

Someone’s got at Trump! Who is now denying that the NHS is on table.

We are not fools!!

It's about time we had an United Kingdom first policy!!!

In my opinion worrying about something which may/may not happen is pointless.

NHS buys in drugs, supplies and services from worldwide, makes economic sense that post Brexit (if it happens) to "shop around" to get the best deal available.

The NHS is not the same "animal" now as it was at its inception, nobody could have predicted the medical breakthroughs which have happened, or how much the population of the UK would increase.

Something has to change and just throwing money at it is not the solution, it will take a brave Health Secretary to commit to a total reorganisation, and I cannot see one of them appearing on the political scene at the moment.

A lady from one of the American newspapers said yesterday on Sky News that Trump just says/offers things and not to believe anything her says. He'll offer a trade deal one minute and take it away the next...

Donald Trump has two slogans that he has consistently used since he stood as a candidate for the American presidency.

The first of those is " Let's Make America Great Again", with the second being "America First."

The above has been at the very core of all Trump policies since he took office, and the prescribing against companies supplying Huawei demonstrates that the policy of "America First" is actually increasing in its application.

Therefore, no one should now have any doubts in the pressure that British negotiators will be placed under when trying to bring forward a trade agreement with the United States. The US will demand that ALL aspects affecting commerce between the two countries be on the table, and that will include the NHS, agricultural standards, animal husbandry along with workers rights and protections to name but a few.

As stated, Trump is solely for America, and if any forum member believes that he would be willing to allow such a large sector of the British economy as the supply of health care to not be up for negotiation in those trade talks, then I believe that is delusional.

Trump finds it difficult to impose trading demands on the European Union due to its size, and that is why Trump wishes to see its destruction. However, to have smaller nations such as Britain across a trade negotiating table is certainly what he wishes to see, as then the "Amarica First" policy can be implemented to the full.

I have just watched his interview with Piers Morgan, he comes over better than I thought. He said that the NHS is “not on the table”.

I see Trump has taken it OFF the table. It seems the demonstrations, the trade unions and some senior Tories helped change his mind - for now.

But can we be sure this won't happen once we have left the EU?

Brexit will then be an exit from the EU, but force us to bend over for the US, giving up our sovereignty and control to another nation. Is that what the Brexiteers want?

Make no bones about it Trump is pro Brexit for a reason. For Trump it has got to be good news when a strong united Europe starts to lose its member nations, so the US can pick off individual nations, doing dodgy deals at a high price - interfering in a nation's politics as he is overtly doing in the UK this week.

Why do we want to leave the EU and be in hock to another master? What when Trump finally goes?

Don't put our NHS up for Negotiation petition....

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/242300?fbclid=IwAR3G009ARhDGhGwJn4aypCFZGejppG5t50HB-W-6p_txHIwQr4tGBDYPTeo

My husband has been prescribed Lidocaine plasters to help the pain from his shingles.(They don't work on him) The price 9 not that we pay for them) is 67 euros for a pack of 30. In the States they are US$170 for the same quantity.

I'm not sure that 'we' wanted globalisation but it's here and we have to deal with it and if necessary try to curb the excesses. Contrary to many beliefs, this is not coming from a position of jealousy.

The same nice Mr Banks who funded Farage? Well there's a surprise.

hmmmm yes, for sure. S u r p r i s e ...

Isn't Mr Banks involved in insurance also...?

'We' wanted globerlisation. This is where it leads to.

But I thought the whole point of Brexit was 'global Britain', petra. So who are the 'We' who wanted globalisation?

What is the difference between 'global Britain' and 'globalisation'?