Euthanasia

And sharing on GN it not sharing with all and sundry, well not for me, it’s sharing with friends.

GGMK3 In my opinion your last couple of posts directed at Anniebach appear to be very unkind.

Anniebach, please do not let this unkindness upset you.

Your GN pals will always be here for you

I Will leave this thread , not because of GracesGran but she will continue and I will have problems trying not to reply. It is disrespectful to the poor girl who died and the thread should not be used for anything but for posters to give their views on the topic not on a poster.

Thank you GrannyGravy I only spoke of my experience to try to give understanding of both sides in a suicide.

GracesGranMk3, I'm shocked by your post to anniebach at 10.17 today. Anniebach was not imo 'making it all about' her. She was sharing her own difficult and fairly recent experience of her daughter's suicide and saying she would have wanted to stop her daughter's action if she could.
GG3 to say she was choosing to share her experiences 'with all and sundry' was cruel and unnecessary in my view.

From what I've read, the young woman in Holland was sexually assaulted at age 11 and again age 14. The impact of that on her mental health was profound. She chose to die and took action to ensure she did. Starving is said to be a dreadful death. We need better services for young people who have experienced significant trauma. We need better services for all of us .

I do believe that the comments posted on this thread by GracesGranMK3 are correct but often difficult to come to terms with in a 'close to home' situation.
I would want to fight with all my strength to prevent a child of mine from harming themself but as GracesGranMK3 wrote, it would be, selfishly, for my needs not theirs.
I think it's one of the most difficult expressions of love. To let go.

Sorry but you are so wrong Gabriella , as I have been told
I am making this all about me, which I was not,

But I will for this post,

My thoughts of my daughter are - I see a beautiful sunset and wish she was looking at it, her daughters tell me things and I wish she was here to share things with her daughters

I watched her elder daughter last year at her graduation and so wished my daughter could be there . I see my son in law and their three children and again my thoughts are what she
Isn’t experiencing , she is missing love three children and her husband have for her.

You have no idea, like GracesGran too eager to judge

Yes I would hsve wanted to save my daughter

At a recent lecture on End of Life Care, Baroness Finlay, an internationally renowned expert in palliative care, reported that the number of people dying by euthanasia in the Netherlands is now 22 percent!
She also described the case of a Dutch school boy who had cancer being asked by his visiting school friends when he was going to be euthanised.

Anniebach
I'm sorry. I didn't make it clear that I meant only the posts or parts of posts which did not include comments you deemed to be critical of your comments re your own situation.
I would never belittle your feelings re your daughter.
I would do exactly the same and feel exactly the same in your situation and I have no idea how you cope.

I meant that I agreed with the essence of the thread, the parts which do not refer to you but thank you for bringing it to my attention as others might have been thinking the same as you did.
I hope I've explained it properly.

GabriellaG54 - thanks for clarifying your comments about GGM3's posts on this thread. It's prompted me to want to add that whilst I stand by my shock at the personal criticism she directed at Anniebach, I agree with GGM3's other contributions.

oldgoat, maybe its not a bad thing that the percentage of people who chose euthanasia in the Netherlands is increasing. One of my much loved relatives died young recently, his end of life care was excellent in our local hospital. He had stock piled medication because he didn't want to face the pain so many cancer sufferers do as their life comes to an end. Thankfully that wasn't necessary. Another close friend is in the hospice where its hoped his pain can be managed.
I accept and respect that some have strong feelings against euthanasia. I'd like the choice if I was facing the kind of death some do. I'm uncomfortable with the idea of young people who are suffering mental health problems being given euthanasia as a choice. It's something this recent case highlighted that I hadn't considered.

If I am ever given a diagnosis which confirms I have a terminal illness, I have everything set up to leave this world with dignity.

I am still hoping my generation will push for legal euthanasia for those who have absolutely no hope of surviving.

I remember watching Dr Robert Winston's 1998 series, 'The Human Body' in which he followed, for many weeks, a man dying of stomach cancer. Despite regular injections of major-dose morphine, the poor man was still in agony and begging to be allowed to go gently - and no one would (or could) help him.

I think it is incredibly cruel and totally inhumane to allow someone to die slowly and in pain.

It won't happen to me.

Sorry to insist, but there is a massive difference between 'euthanasia' and 'assisted suicide' - legally, ethically, medically, morally ... and more.

In Switzerland, 'assisted' suicide' is legal- euthanasia is NOT. And even with 'assisted suicide', one has to show that one is clearly 'compos mentis' and that there is no cohersion, pressure or any hesitation whatsoever.

But this thread is on Euthanasia for a girl who was mentally ill not with terminal cancer .

Legal euthanasia or assisted Suicide for the mentally ill troubles me very much.

As we now know- this did not happen. There was no euthansia involved- but they did not force feed her, again, against her wishes. No euthanasia, NO assisted suicide either.

Do you think she should have been tied to the bed and force fed- or again, put in artificial comma so they could feed her artificially? How many times and for how many years should they have done that, again, and again, and again some more?

Have you read my post dated 5th June, Jura? Would that girl be better off dead? I don't think so and nor does she.

My Dd is a medical student and I was talking to her about euthanasia. She said she doesn't think any of her fellow trainees would be prepared to take part in such a practise, it goes against their instincts to preserve life. It's a big thing to ask of professionals, to end a life.

Jura I have no idea what treatment the girl had received.

Were those who raped her brought to justice ?

I questioned why she didn’t take her life , she wrote a book .

A person with mental illness and wants to die take their own lives without writing a book.

I wonder just what mental illness she suffered from

Anniebach - Jura I have no idea what treatment the girl had received. Were those who raped her brought to justice ? I questioned why she didn’t take her life , she wrote a book . A person with mental illness and wants to die take their own lives without writing a book. I wonder just what mental illness she suffered from

She suffered from depression, PTSD, Anorexia and self harm. She had been hospitalised over 20 times and had attempted suicide many times before.

I do not believe that the assailants were ever brought to justice because initially she was too ashamed to tell her parents.

Her book started out as a diary that she wrote in psychiatric hospital - according to an interview that she gave she was held in a hospital isolation room for several months, under 24/7 camera surveillance and forced to go to juvenile court as the Dutch youth MH system means that children have to go to court for decisions over hospital admission. She claimed that the Dutch youth psychiatry system compounded her MH issues as she was made to feel like a criminal to receive treatment.

Thank you Cold, how brutal taking a child to court to decide hospital admission and keeping a child in isolation for several months , that to was brutal unless she was a threat to other patients.

I am not religious, but I find euthanasia a very difficult moral issue, and I admit to feeling disturbed when reading about the Dutch statistics of 22%. It is very emotive and I don't know how I would feel in a situation, where a loved on, or myself was suffering so much that death seemed the better choice. The Dutch legal criteria is unbearable suffering with no prospect of improvement which seems to allow too much interpretation to me. I understand that in their system people who are suffering mental illness, and those with dementia, have been euthanised, and I cannot understand how they can properly give consent. For those who can be bothered there is a very good article The long read in the Guardian in Jan 19 Death on demand: has euthanasia gone too far by Christopher de Bellaigue, which explores this from different angles.

Horrific. Thank you Lazigirl ,

Again, this case had nothing to do with Euthanasia. SueDonim- perhaps talk again with your Dd- you will probably find that most medical students will feel very differently about 'euthanasia' versus 'assisted suicide' - and even more so with such a case as discussed here- where neither were the case- but where they decided they could not do either what I described above (eg tie to bed and force feed, or put again in artificial coma to aritifical feed- totally against the clear wished of the patient).

BTW, in Switzerland- the medical team, doctors or nurses, are NOT involved in anyway whatsoever with assisted suicide- but this is provided elsewhere and by totally different trained volunteers (many who are not medically qualified).

I do t know enough about the differences between assisted suicide and euthanasia, will do some reading. Jura, the Swiss AS model sounds good to me.

Dignity in Dying is a good place to start.

www.dignityindying.org.uk/about-us/